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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Simmons SDS 3 - DIY?
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arnoid



Joined: Aug 23, 2009
Posts: 55
Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great news it's finally working

All we need now is a PCB run Very Happy

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vtl5c3



Joined: Sep 08, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Excellent work! Good to see progress with this project.
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jmejia



Joined: Mar 12, 2009
Posts: 114
Location: portland

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah this is exciting! Xnor and I are laying out a pcb with the new fixed schematic. Thanks xpmtl and THeff!!!! After a proto run - we'll do a big group order and keep them flowing for as long as there's interest!
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xpmtl



Joined: Aug 10, 2007
Posts: 158
Location: Brussels, Belgium

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just noticed the Gain trimmer at the output of the 3080 in my schematic is supposed to be a pot. It's actually the channel level slider on the SDS-3.

I've replaced the BC547 by 2N5172 today, no difference to note. Works just the same.

I'll check with the original FETs tomorrow as they showed up this morning.

x.

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jmejia



Joined: Mar 12, 2009
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Got it. Thanks!
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waveselector



Joined: Nov 17, 2008
Posts: 14
Location: chicago

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The sound samples are right on! I happen to have an SDS3 on hand – if I can be of any help please let me know, but it seems like you guys are pretty much there!
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arnoid



Joined: Aug 23, 2009
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

waveselector wrote:
The sound samples are right on! I happen to have an SDS3 on hand – if I can be of any help please let me know, but it seems like you guys are pretty much there!


Lucky you Smile
Is it possible to post high resolution pics of the inside of the SDS3 ?

The componentside of the pcb so we can check and verify the resistor value's and the used components etc. we can compare them to get as close as possible to the orginal ?

Also the bottom side of the pcb with the pcb layout and tracks would be useful to compare..

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xpmtl



Joined: Aug 10, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi folks,

I've checked the circuit with the 2N5459 FETs and i can't notice any sonic differences so it's safe to use either BF245 and BC547 or the originals.

The trimmers don't have to be 25 turns, 1 turn is enough.

Also checked operation under +/-12V. Everything works but there's significant less power at the output. So i guess there's some adaptation to do if you want to use it in Euro format.

x.

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jmejia



Joined: Mar 12, 2009
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sweet! Layout is comin right along. I'll have something to show soon.

I could incorporate euro for folks if there's interest, and if someone can tell me how to do it! (I work on +/-15 myself)

Would it require voltage regulators? Or is there an easier change to the circuit that could be optional for 12v folks?

Also if someone has an eagle part that corresponds to the euro connector I could possibly include it along with the MOTM/CGS style one I would normally do.
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xpmtl



Joined: Aug 10, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Connector is in the con-panduit library, ref: 057-010-1

You don't need voltage regulators, just some resistor values adaptation. Probably around IC3a and IC8 but i'm not qualified to give a good answer as i don't have a clue myself Smile.

x.

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xnor



Joined: Apr 24, 2013
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

xpmtl,

I've been looking over your schematic before we do a PCB prototype.. first of all, thanks a ton, I'm really excited to get at these sounds!

I noticed two little differences in your schematic vs. factory:
R64 and R64 in your schematic are both 1k but the factory is 3.3k and 5.6k respectively.

I'm wondering if you can explain the noise mod, your noise comes into the the tone/noise mixing pot [which has ground on the wiper], which is much different than the factory schematic. Where does this mod come from? Whats it all about?

Thanks!

xnor
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xpmtl



Joined: Aug 10, 2007
Posts: 158
Location: Brussels, Belgium

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi xnor,

R64 & R65 have been reduced to 1K by Tim to avoid the 3080 to be overdriven and thus distorting the sine wave. See his post on the previous page.

Noise mod is from the original schematic. It's in the lower right corner, on the right of the Run Generator. I draw it as is.

x.

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xpmtl



Joined: Aug 10, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I had some free time this week-end so i did this. 1U MOTM module in SMD Smile

No idea if this will work but it was fun to layout. I should receive the prototype in 2 weeks.

x.


SDS3_Layout_TOP.jpg
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waveselector



Joined: Nov 17, 2008
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

HERE is a link to images of the original SDS3 PCBs, both component and trace sides. Sorry the component side is a little out of focus, but it's clear enough to see most resistor bands. Hopefully it'll be of some use in helping to verify the layout.
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THeff



Joined: Sep 01, 2006
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Location: Florida
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

XPMTL,

Very nice PCB, man you really crank those PCBs out! So you have a source for the SMD CA3086/CA3046 ICs?

Waveselector,

Thanks for the Pics! Those are way better than the ones posted previously across the web. I was looking at the components and noticed that that they do have a 3.3k and 5.6k for R64 & R65. I'm thinking now that maybe Dave Simmons wanted it to clip and move towards a square wave when the Tone (resonance) control is fully in the Tone position, just to add more timbre choices. Moving the control away from that full Tone position should lower the amplitude and bring it back to a sinewave...but I didn't try that.

Regards,

Theff
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xpmtl



Joined: Aug 10, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Tim,

3046 are available at Mouser :

http://www2.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/LM3046M-NOPB/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMutXGli8Ay4kJYwwJs%2f5Jh9MWZLWi%252bHP7g%3d

I've got a board for you, just PM me your address Wink I'll stuff all the SMD parts.

And for the others, if the board works, i'll post the gerbers so you'll just have to send it to be manufactured.

x.

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jmejia



Joined: Mar 12, 2009
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

great looking pcb xpmtl!

waveselector - nice pics! Any chance you could do some of the front panel? Might be nice for panel design!
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xpmtl



Joined: Aug 10, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

here you are Smile


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jmejia



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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice! Thanks!
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xpmtl



Joined: Aug 10, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tim,

I tried reverting R64-R65 to their original values. Scope shows that it only distort negative part of the sine wave. I don't think it's very interesting sonically as I couldn't get any new sounds out of it. I've gone back to 1k resistors. I find it more pleasing to the ear that way.

x.

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jmejia



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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

good to know xpmtl - I was also kind of assuming distortion could be intentional/pleasing and am planning on testing both ways as well!
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THeff



Joined: Sep 01, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

xpmtl,

Thanks for the generous offer of the PCB, I will PM you soon with my contact info. It's cool that Mouser still stocks the SMD version of the CA3046, pretty cheap too.

I have been having internet problems this week and just got back online tonight.

If jmejia wants to continue to try the original values for R64 & R65, you should be able to get symmetrical clipping on the top and bottom by adjusting the Null trimmer.

Regards,

-Tim
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jmejia



Joined: Mar 12, 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Putting the finishing touches on this pcb now.. shouldn't be long now!

Can someone suggest a resistor change for getting this thing to work at 12V? Or explain an approach to that mod? I'm a bit clueless there, but I think it'd be nice for folks to have a euro connector in addition to the CGS/MOTM connector planned.

This will be all through-hole, and panel mounted pots for those interested. We're planning on doing a professional run, and keeping them in stock as long as there is interest - as well as offering the design files for those who want to roll their own.

And THeff and xpmtl both get free pcbs if they want em!

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THeff



Joined: Sep 01, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi jmejia,

Very nice PCB! That is more like what I was thinking of designing so that I could mount four of them on edge next to each other.

I stick with +/-15V for my synth stuff but if I were you I would start by applying +/-12V and see what works and what doesn't, it certainly won't hurt anything. Then go from there.

-THeff
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xpmtl



Joined: Aug 10, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice one Jmejia!

I checked it at +/-12V and everything works, only the output level is lower than at 15V. Maybe you can adjust it with the gain trimmer and that would be enough.

x.

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