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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Alesis Andromeda
Andromeda editor for iPad
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tomoe97



Joined: May 28, 2008
Posts: 8
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think it looks fine as is. Can you show us a screen for the step sequencer? I would use the step sequencer much more if the knobs weren't so imprecise.
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scd



Joined: Dec 26, 2003
Posts: 44
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for all the friendly and encouraging posts. Appreciated!

The looks will not change for V1, I am sorry.

I'll attach a few pics of the step sequencer and arpeggiator. Which is a good moment to share some of the thoughts behind and the difficulties with the Andromeda.

The step sequencer is captured in two pages as you can see. The arpeggiator in one page in the editor.

The first stepsequencer page is a good example to explain the building blocks of the editor:
- sliders: those are simple to understand. Double tapping on them brings up a jogwheel for fine tuning by the way, but the sliders already are a huge improvement over the Andromeda knobs Smile
- switches (the ones with the red LED): for on/off functions.
- rectangles with rounded edges: those are always popup menus. I used them for parameters with more than 2 choices. On the step sequencer pages those are the note selection, number of steps,
- small boxes with a "m" inside: these will always bring you to a modulation page. There are 47 modulation pages. Each modulation slot that has the list of 79 modulation sources has its own page. With big knobs. On those modulation pages you can always go back to the page where you pressed the "m".
- little dots (like the one in the upper left corner above the clock rate slider) will be visible throughout the editor, indicating that that parameter is a modulation destination in one of the 47 mod pages.
You wll be amazed how many parameters are a modulation destination on the Andromeda! Cool

The step sequencer has a problem that is not solvable as far as I know at this moment. The problem is in the "switch" between the first 8 steps and the last 8 steps (plus accompanying parameters): there is no way to tell the Andromeda "go to the first" or "go to the second" LCD screen (plus accompanying parameters).
The one you are looking at on the hardware is the one that should be on your iPad screen: you have to make them the same on the Andromeda. The button to select the first or last page is the button that is used to switch through the 16 steps on the Andromeda. The only way to tell the Andromeda to be on the fist page is to switch the synth off and on...
Well, something to think about when working with it. In the editor you can switch between the LCD screen for steps 1-8 and 9-16 by pressing the blue triangle in step sequencer page 1 on the iPad (it is simply forwarding 8 steps in the background). But you have to check on the Andro if it is the same there.

The same problem happens with the selection of the four step parameters: there is no way to tell the andro to start on one of them (note, velo, gate, step). You can only walk through them...

Furthermore there are parameters that do not work correctly or do not work at all. I will post about that later.

But I can tell from own experience that the step sequencer becomes a lot easier and thus more fun to handle with the iPad!

Another (known) bug is the fact that you can not use the hold pedal for holding the step sequence: sooner or later that gives hanging notes unfortunately. Be aware of that.

More later.

Boele


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chowderdoof



Joined: Dec 03, 2012
Posts: 8
Location: Brisbane Australia

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

scd wrote:
Yes, although the response does not seem to be that earth shattering... Confused

I may be slow to reply or post but I personally check this Andromeda forum RSS feed waiting for news from this post constantly! Embarassed

I went and brought the TB MIdi app as soon as I read your post and I must confess I keep daydreaming about using your app since I first saw your pics. banana


Its sounds like there are some restrictions but nothing as bad as the actual knobs on the andy so its a happy compromise Im guessing!


It looks like you have spent a great deal of time and effort and I think you should charge for it - even if its just to help keep you motivated fine tuning the app or get a website to host or something. I also think It looks great especially the new ARP and Seq pages Very Happy


Do all the pages work yet (mods, lfo, fx, various) or are you still fine tuning them? Love to see more pix or a quick video of it in action - haha ok back to dreaming Wink
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scd



Joined: Dec 26, 2003
Posts: 44
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

@ chowderdoof: yes, all pages I have done so far are working:
- Oscillators
- Pre filters mixer
- Filters
- Post filters mixer
- Envelopes
- LFOs
- S+H
- Mod pages
- Step sequencer
- Arpeggiator
- Analog distortion
- Digital fxs (some fxs are buggy (and bad sounding...( but we all knew that already right?)
- Voice mix
- Croutes (a bit hard to capture on the iPad)
- Transpose
- Portamento
- Unison
- Wheels
- Tracking generator (not tested yet)
- Smooth parameters

First we need to wait for Apple to approve a TBMS update which contains something needed specially for this editor.

Warning: (again and again) it is for now a one-way communication editor with all kinds of restrictions. But I can also say that it is an awesome tool for sound design.

A small video on youtube is planned as well.

I might redo the oscillator pages. There are just too much parameters on the single pages. Another thing not for V1.

I am talking with a designer to see what is possible in the short/long term considering the looks of the app and a dedicated website.

I plan to do (but not for V1) more pages for program/mix/store/copy/naming controls.

Hopes for the future: as far as I know there is no iOS app that can capture sysex dumps as large as the Andromeda spits out and work with them.
Lemur can't, we tested that. TBMS can't either (yet). And that is something I need for a decent librarian. So, until that happens I can only work with single sysex messages, which limits the possibilities in those sections.
However, the librarian part has never been considered by me so far. I wanted to be able to build sounds on the Andro in a more easy way than is possible right now. For that, the editor is good. Not perfect, but good.

Boele

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tomoe97



Joined: May 28, 2008
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Amazing work!!! Very Happy
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chowderdoof



Joined: Dec 03, 2012
Posts: 8
Location: Brisbane Australia

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tomoe97 wrote:
Amazing work!!! Very Happy


I agree - wow!!!!! props


Just the amount of pages is mind boggling let alone the amount of control offered on each page! Shocked


Its funny because I had given up on certain things like the sequencer and even fine tuning certain parameters because of the faulty knobs and to be able to tame some of the chaos is extremely exciting!


The one way communication and one page editing is a bit of compromise (not really!?) but it sounds like you have an excellent understanding of the Andy and close connection to Fabien Manchec and TB Midi Stuff so maybe things will develop over time?


It sounds like things are already happening ... (TBMS Apple update etc.)
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Infrablue



Joined: Dec 29, 2011
Posts: 123
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm checking back on this regularly. Just amazing work. I am especially excited also to read about your discoveries about the A6 while building this. Let's everyone spread the word on this app...
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scd



Joined: Dec 26, 2003
Posts: 44
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well... A release text is on its way to matrixsynth Smile

But the forum gets it first Cool

The download link is:
http://www.synthmusic.info/ccount/click.php?id=1000

Release text:
As of today the first version of the iPad editor for the Andromeda A6 synthesizer is available. The editor captures all sound editing parameters on the Andromeda, spread out over 102 pages with a combined mix of NRPN and system exclusive messages. Its focus has been on sound design, so it is not a librarian (yet). That might or might not change in the future.

The editor is free, however the template it needs to run in "TB MIDI Stuff", a MIDI controller app for the iPad which costs 4,99 $ / 4,49 €. The app is totally worth the money since it's developer, Fabien Manchec, helped a lot in the background to make this Andromeda editor possible.
Besides running this Andromeda Editor, you can use the app also to build your own MIDI control templates or use already made templates by others.
I would appreciate it a lot if you give the app a nice rating/review in iTunes as a thank you to him!

The download link will give you a zipped file which after unpacking leaves you with two files: the actual editor and a Read Me text file. I suggest you first read the Read Me text file! Smile

I would appreciate it a lot when users mail me with bug reports, ideas and suggestions: scd@synthmusic.info.

I will use the forum on electro-music.com for discussions about the editor and the Andromeda.
http://electro-music.com/forum/forum-90.html

For me personally, sound design on the Andromeda changed completely: to have a better oversight of all the functions and a WAY better interface (specially concerning the knob value resolution) makes the Andromeda like a complete new synthesizer for me.
Yes, the thing has a few bugs, yes, even with the editor it still is a complex synth, but oh it can be *so* rewarding. And in a way it is a 16 voice polyphonic analog modular. With patch memory! That's pretty unique.

Enjoy!
Boele

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Last edited by scd on Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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chowderdoof



Joined: Dec 03, 2012
Posts: 8
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes yes yes!

Well I haven't got this to work as yet (I need a proper midi solution - was using my xstation but its a klunky solution anyhow) but I must say it looks fantastic (very slick!) and super fast how you can jump between pages!

Having a Tempo sync in whole bpm is going to be fun! no more tempo.000 and love the modulations and effects set ups no more scrolling... scrolling... scrolling....!


Just an idea that might be useful for future versions (or not ) Question

I Love the Pulse width fix defaulting to 52 and was wondering if there is a tweak for the pre and post mixer to help prevent clipping and overdrive was available?
So for example if you could tally the total of the pre and post mixer settings and notify if clipping might occur (as quoted below)???

Pre-Mixer:
"If the combined level of two oscillators exceeds 30 (??30-45?) or if one of them is set above 30, waveshape takes place, waveform becomes clipped (cut off)"
"The pre filter mixer will overdrive with combined values exceeding total of 30 (i.e VCO1=15 VCO2=15; or VCO1=30 VCO2=0; should work good)."
Post-Mixer:
The post filter mixer will (clip overdrive) as well with values above 50.


Anyhow Thank-you so much for all you hard work and effort to design and create an excellent addition to help breath new life to the andy!
well-done

Its nearly morning - time to score me a proper midi solution!

THANKS AGAIN!!!! Back soon!
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Helge Kautz



Joined: Jul 04, 2012
Posts: 11
Location: Düsseldorf, Germany

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Testing it right now... looks fantastic so far...

Helge
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lunaire



Joined: Jan 23, 2009
Posts: 16
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OMG , i mean, u are god!!! hahahaaha
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scd



Joined: Dec 26, 2003
Posts: 44
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

lunaire wrote:
OMG , i mean, u are god!!! hahahaaha


LOL! I hope not Wink

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tomoe97



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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Brilliant! THANK YOU!!!
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scd



Joined: Dec 26, 2003
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

@chowderdoof thanks youvfor the input. I have thought about the level stuff, but unfortunately TBMS does not allow you to do such programming. The app is quite simple in that respect (which was the actual goal of its designer, to have something more simple than for instance Lemur).

But I think once you know the numbers it isn't hard to remember: pre mixer 30% post mixer 50%.

As a matter of fact I just realize there might be a way... Mmm Very Happy

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chowderdoof



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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
But I think once you know the numbers it isn't hard to remember: pre mixer 30% post mixer 50%.


Ive often wondered if people ever worry about this when programming the andy. Its not the difficult I know but when you tweak stuff you have to recalculate not its not very intuitive I suppose. I know with the hardware it was especially painful with the knobs so hopefully with your editor it should be much easier. Wink


I had a small amount of success tweaking your app with my xstation as an ios midi device but Im not sure everything was working correctly. Im guessing its the xstation as its not really recognised by TBMS and it could be filtering messages or not communicating correctly but I have got a better interface coming soon so looking forward to that.

What was working was great especially the fx section! Some of the parameters were showing visual feedback on the andy screen in realtime (when tweaking) which I don't think all things do but I hope Im wrong Smile

The sequencer came alive and was fun to program! Its a little fiddly but 10000 times better than the hardware! I couldn't get the clock from TBMS but maybe another xstation glitch.

One thing I have realised after exploring the app is how many parameters there are on the Andy and how little I have used or even known about some of them #rtfm Embarassed
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scd



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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

@chowderdoof

As far as I know the editor parameters should give the exact visual feedback on the Andromeda as if you were editing from the synth itself. I tested that but sure I could missed one or two parameters of coarse.

I programmed and tested with a direct MIDI connection from the iPad to the Andromeda with the Line6 Mobilizer II. But it should work with any MIDI interface that does not filter out NRPNs and/or sys-ex.

Yes, there are 1200+ parameters on the Andro... The manual has faults and omissions too by the way. And so does the sys-ex document.
I plan to discuss the editor and Andro section by section so we can all benefit from the shared knowledge and improve the editor.

Thanks for your input!

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Steinklopfer



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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject:  Thanks a lot Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Heyhey

I just created an account just to say "thank you"
I will test it tomorrow. But the screens look amazing!!

Thanks a lot for your time!!!
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scd



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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

@steinklopfer

You're welcome and thank you for the friendly words. Enjoy the editor and always feel free to comment on it, be it bugs or ideas etc.

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chowderdoof



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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
As far as I know the editor parameters should give the exact visual feedback on the Andromeda as if you were editing from the synth itself


Ok I just figured it out - I hadn't turned on the Andy's Front Panel NRPN Receive (Global-Panel- Rx Mode On) Rolling Eyes But Now things are working properly and all I can say it WOW @SCD - your a genius!! Hail the Master


Only after a few min with this app I can Its AMAZING and better than I imagined - it fully unlocks the power of this great synth and its such a joy and an adventure to program - thanks for sharing and keep us posted - cant wait to hear more about your findings..
Quote:
I plan to discuss the editor and Andro section by section so we can all benefit from the shared knowledge and improve the editor.


Love your work salut
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scd



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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice that you have it working now. I should put that in the ReadMe file!

Also, to make more clear for OSX users who want to use the editor over WIFI what happens in Apple's audio/MIDI utility (which in fact acts as a MIDI router).

What goes wrong are two things:
First, it filters RNP/NRPN parameter MSB/LSB if it receives the same values as it received the last time. In that case it just routes Data Entry MSB/LSB.

Second, it filters all RPN/NRPN messages (both parameter MSB/LSB and Data Entry MSB/LSB when the value of the Data Entry MSB is higher or equal to 64 (0x40).

It looks like the utility is bypassed (or its behavior is changed) when you boot Logic Audio.

Also this app seems to neutralize these bugs, although I did not test it fully with the editor yet:
http://notahat.com/midi_patchbay/

Apple certainly has MIDI not high on their important features list... These bugs are there for *years* now.

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scd



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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As of now, there are 115 unique downloads (unique source IPs) of the editor from my website.

On a total of ± 3500 Andromeda's that is not too much yet. Then again, not everybody has an iPad, and not everybody is a sound designer Smile

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JayDog



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Created an account to say thanks for this great program! I actually just purchased an a6 a month ago. Fortunately for me you just finished the program. I have a problem though. It's not communicating to the a6 properly. It can only adjust the oscillator frequency and a few other knobs. The majority of knobs are not responsive. I'm using the line 6 mobilizer 2. I'm hoping it's just software and not hardware. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again for this amazing program.
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scd



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi JayDog,

Could you tell me an exact parameter that works and one that does not? I think I know what might be wrong Smile

Boele

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JayDog



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just figured it out Rx mode was set to off. Works great now!
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scd



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The parameters that did work are listening to sys-ex commands from the iPad. Those are MIDI channel independent and also "Rx independent" so to speak.
But most Andromeda paremeters are steared by NRPN messages from the iPad and can be ignored by the Andromeda with wrong settings.

Good you have it working. Enjoy!

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