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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » The layout factory
Wonderful_yusynth/steiner vcf on stripboard!!!
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mubase



Joined: Mar 24, 2011
Posts: 108
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:36 am    Post subject:  Wonderful_yusynth/steiner vcf on stripboard!!!
Subject description: An untested but workable stripboarded yusynth vcf....
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For anyone interested in VCF design, I have been working on building a board for a weird sound generator Redux which is a bit of a Frankenstein's Monster of collected lfo's delays and this lovely Steiner VCF as adapted by the genius of SDIY/Yusynth: I have checked over the board layout and although really messy ( pot wires coming out at all angles etc...) It may work... I'll get back on that one in a couple of days when I have built it..The transistors used are 2n3904's. I would welcome any input on this one as I am not an advanced designer or anything...


messy_yusynth_SB_design.png
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Stripboarded version 1.0b
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messy_yusynth_SB_design.png



VCF-2SC1583-sch.pdf
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Original Sdiy design...

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mubase



Joined: Mar 24, 2011
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 2:46 am    Post subject:  "wonderful" steiner vcf on stripboard problemzzz
Subject description: need help here....
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Shocked Embarassed With reference to the Yusynth steiner vcf stripboard layout in the layout factory: I built this after looking again and realise there are a few obvious mistakes ..( the 4.7k resistors coming from the 2.2 caps should be 47K. Pin 5 of the TL072 should be connected to ground and cv2 ear should go to a ground reference ( not the -15V connection!!!). Asides from that this thing has been driving me crazy. Can't get it to work. The -15V supply sinks all the way down to a few millivolts so there's a short somewhere but I don' know where. Please, can any experts on this great site point me in the right direction...??? I have looked over it 10 times and see no more faults..The soldering "looks" o.k. But to no avail... Crying or Very sad
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-minus-



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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi! ...and sorry it's not working!

I'm always on the look out for stripboard layouts and noticed this. I haven't had much luck with filters in the past so excuse me if I have this wrong... I am just looking at the schematic and comparing it to your stripboard layout. Pin 6 of the TL071 and pin 6 of the TL072 are linked.

On the schematic, the path goes from pin 6 of the TL072 through a 10K resistor, then through a 10uF capacitor to pin 6 of the TL071. On your stripboard you have it going through the capacitor THEN the resistor. Maybe that should be swapped?

I'll stare at the schematic and layout some more and see if anything else jumps out at me... I am not an advanced designer or anything either Laughing
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mubase



Joined: Mar 24, 2011
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 11:46 am    Post subject: Cap and Resistor swap???? tried and no luck....
Subject description: vcf probs ( part three )
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Hi Minus! Cool Thanks for the input. That's one thing i forgot to mention last time but thanks for pointing it out again. I have tried swapping the resistor/cap connections linking pins 6 and 6 of the op amps hoping this would fix it... alas!!!
i'll come back to it though...keep looking... it would be so nice to have a proper stripboarded version of this design ... cheers for now...
Steve.
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mubase



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:45 am    Post subject: Noob moves...
Subject description: Upgrade to proper board.....
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Embarassed Can't for the life of me figure this one, anyways the circuit now sits silently in the green basket. Confused ..I contacted a lovely guy in Australia called "Ken Stone" who sent me a board of his own design for a synthacon VCF. I have since assembled and is almost working exactly how i want it. Great stuff. My WSG redux is taking shape.........
Love to peeps everywhere..... Smile
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-minus-



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello... I'm glad you have something working! I'll sit down and have a good look over your stripboard layout. I kind of forgot about it!

The Ken Stone stuff is nice! I've recently been breadboarding a lot of his circuits. In fact I have his Chime Simulator ringing away right now... as it has been for the past 9 hours! Laughing The CGS Drum Simulator is fun too!

If I spot something, I'll post my findings. I too have a box of failed circuits... Embarassed
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I might have found something... unless you have already noticed it yourself.

D9 and D10 on the schematic are missing on your stripboard layout. These are the diodes between PIN 2 and 6 of the TL071.

If I see that you already have mentioned this, I'll edit this post...
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mubase



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:09 am    Post subject:  Diodes and beyond.......
Subject description: Noted and........
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Hi Minus! Nice to hear from you again. I've taken into account what you said about the diodes missing. I remember I did actually leave them out as on the breadboarded prototype (pre stripboard) i noticed that by leaving them out it made the resonance a lot sharper ( which i like.. especially when using an VC to control the frequency...). seemed to work on the Breadboard but I think there's a problem with the grounds and that's why it's not working... i coud be wrong but....
any hoo, I've posted a page on the layout factory (see layout factory...Rog's post: "Suggestions for a first DIY project?" with a pic of the project thus far and a sample of what it can do...
Now i'm concerning myself with attaching all the 30 or so wires to various points for the patchbay...( oh what a joy.... : > ) )....
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mubase



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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 7:07 am    Post subject: yusynth steiner vcf on stripboard...couldn't let it go. Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've come back to this board which has been lying in the graveyard for nearly 2 years. I've solved the problem of the ground. There were a couple of tiny stray solder strands in between stripboard tracks.
So now I almost have her working. I did re-include diodes 9 and 10 as a loop between pins 2 and 6 of the 741.
She now functions albeit not very well. I don't have the CV pots wired up yet but the Cutoff, resonance and input pots are are wired in.
The cutoff pot (47K) does change the filter's cutoff but does it all in a fifth of a complete pot turn. There is some resonance control but it all sounds really rough and there is a high pitched whine which i am suspecting is self oscillation. I'm not sure what is wrong...I believe the board design is right and am using 2n3904s instead of a 2SC1583...
It sounds really rough and distorted. Perseverance may produce a working filter! ???

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LFLab



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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Did you match the 3904s? Did you check their Hfe? Isn't this a lot lower than "c" grade bc548?
Did you use the "tl" series opamps or something else?
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mubase



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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 1:54 pm    Post subject: re yusynth steiner Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi. The 2n3904s are not matched and if I remember rightly, have a lower hfe than the 2sc1583 which is 400 to 800...
The single op amp I am usiing is a tl081. I tried a 741 as well with not much difference....

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-minus-



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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Still no luck? I can't see anything obviously wrong with the layout, taking into account the errors already mentioned. Matching the transistors might be worth doing. There's a method of doing this here:

http://electro-music.com/forum/post-372850.html
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mubase



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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 2:25 pm    Post subject: yusynth vcf matching pairs... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi again Minus. Thanks for the link. After reading I discovered I can get C1583s from china here:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2PCS-Transistor-MITSUBISHI-ZIP-5-2SC1583-C1583-/270987529682?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f181d8dd2

I might go this route.
Will let you know how it goes....
Smile

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tokyomatik



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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i have a lot of spares LM394N and LM394H...will they work??
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mubase



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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject: Wonderful_yusynth/steiner vcf on stripboard!!! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The LM394... Nice suggestion. Thanks!
I've used these before in the IC variety for the SN voice...
I guess they perform the same function but I woudn't know for sure.
If the characteristics are the same then I dont see why not ( but I'm no expert..) ..

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Nardu



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:08 pm    Post subject: YuSynth/Steiner VCF on stripboard with CA3046 in Lochmaster Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello !
Here is another YuSynth/Steiner VCF design on stripboard with Q1,Q2 = CA3046
Stripboard : H25SR050 (50x100mm - 2x4 inch)


YuSynth-Steiner VCF - CA3046 - stripboard.jpg
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YuSynth-Steiner VCF - CA3046 - stripboard.jpg



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Last edited by Nardu on Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nardu



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:22 am    Post subject: YuSynth/Steiner VCF on stripboard with 2SC1583 in Lochmaster Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here, YuSynth/Steiner VCF design on stripboard with Q1,Q2 = 2SC1583
Stripboard : H25SR050 ( 50x100mm - 2x4 inch )


YuSynth-Steiner VCF - 2SC1583 - stripboard.jpg
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YuSynth-Steiner VCF - 2SC1583 - stripboard.jpg



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mubase



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:24 am    Post subject: Nice stripboard designs Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Nardu. Thanks for your designs. Cool
They look neat. Just one question.
For the first design you say CA3046 but the original yusynth steiner design uses CA3096. Have you changed the design??
If so, do you have a parts list. (I have 3096 and 3046 chips I can use..)
Cheers,
Steve.

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Nardu



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:05 pm    Post subject: YuSynth-Steiner VCF - variants - stripboard Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

@MuBase
The original - YuSynth-Steiner VCF, have 2 combinations:

CA3096 based:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

2SC1583 + TL071 based
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

I have combine them: CA3046 with TL071

My reasons:

- CA3046 - have 2 matched trasistors CA3046 datasheet
- CA3096 - don't have matched trasistors and ...not too easy to find CA3096 datasheet

Below a version with 2N2904 matched trasistor + TL071


YuSynth-Steiner VCF - 2N2904.jpg
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YuSynth-Steiner VCF - with 2N2904 matched trasistors stripboard in Lochmaster
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YuSynth-Steiner VCF - 2N2904.jpg



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Nardu



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:21 am    Post subject: Schema Steiner VCF- CA3046+TL071 Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bellow schema for Steiner VCF version with CA3046 and TL071:


Steiner VCF-CA3046+TL071-sch.jpg
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Steiner VCF- CA3046+TL071- schematic
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Steiner VCF-CA3046+TL071-sch.jpg



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Nardu



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:21 am    Post subject: YuSynth-Steiner VCF CA3046+TL071 r.1 on stripboard Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

YuSynth-Steiner VCF with CA3046+TL071 rev.1
- GND route optimization


YuSynth-Steiner VCF-CA3046+TL071_r1_stripboard.jpg
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YuSynth-Steiner VCF with CA3046+TL071 rev.1 on stripboard - Lochmaster
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YuSynth-Steiner VCF-CA3046+TL071_r1_stripboard.jpg



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mubase



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:06 am    Post subject: RE:Yusynth steiner Stripboard Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Having managed to get some CA3096s from China 4 cheap, I've sacked the stripboard for now & gone Press n Peel.
See here:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-59117.html

Had a few problems with in/out gains and resonance oscillation which has been sorted. Also, one of the CA3096s was faulty! Sad
So Sad after switching the chip (lucky I ordered more than 1) it all works.
Because I'm using a 2.2K trimmer instead of a 2.5, the 1K resistor attached to it has been changed to 680Ω for a wider response.

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