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DS 7 clone
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feggster



Joined: Sep 12, 2011
Posts: 52
Location: uk

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ElektroBear wrote:
Pin 11 had to be routed aswell on the single board. so iam finishing it tomorrow hoping to have it usable on saturday since my friends are performing then.

I routed pin 11 to what i think is V- minus on the board. so this should work have a look. next step is building the dual board for myself.


pin 11 is v+ on lm13700, pin 6 is v-
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Jumawa99



Joined: Mar 14, 2013
Posts: 3
Location: Indonesia
Audio files: 2

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello All,,

I am new here..
My first project is to build this DS 7 / DS 8 clone,,
so, the first attempt is to build the one based on XPMTL / AK47 Design..

i populate the pcb based on the xpmtl instruction, except, i couldn't find the 10M resistor, so i change it to 1 M..
and i couldn't find the logarithmic pot, so i use linear for all pot, and i couldn't find the 2m2 pot, so i used 1M pot instead..

I am not sure if my DS clone working good or bad, or none of them..
but, the VCO knob is not working, i mean, there are no change on the sound whenever i play with it..and also the sweep knob, and the Mode knob..,have no idea what is happening down there..need help..

and yeah, i put the sound samples,,

please check it out..


So, maybe if someone know what is going on with my DS Clone..please advice me to advance to the next level..

cheers..


DS8 Clone.mp3
 Description:
This is the sound samples of my DS 8 clone, based on XPMTL / AK-47 Design. It sound really glitchy,, and the VCO knob is not given any effect, also the Sweep knob, and the rate knob sounds weird..

Download
 Filename:  DS8 Clone.mp3
 Filesize:  5.2 MB
 Downloaded:  156 Time(s)

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JeanFé



Joined: Feb 03, 2013
Posts: 5
Location: France

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sounds like IC2 is not doing the job, you may want to probe the signal to find if any faulty components : http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/debug.html

lots of wires and weird jumpers in this circuit; if space is not an issue i'd etch the bareille design which looks smarter to me! some nice glitches tho, with a decent amp and a bit of eq it could sound much more interesting than fully working unit (consider sampling before debbuging lol)
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xpmtl



Joined: Aug 10, 2007
Posts: 158
Location: Brussels, Belgium

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nope, shouldn't sound like that. Your VCO doesn't work. 10M resistor and 2M2 pot aren't for the vco part so it's not the problem. Check the LM324 and trace signal.

i've posted a schematic of the circuit on page 13 I think, use that to debug.

And try to find a 10M resistor..

the 1M pot is fine if you don't find the 2m2.

x.

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Jumawa99



Joined: Mar 14, 2013
Posts: 3
Location: Indonesia
Audio files: 2

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello Jeanfe

Thanks for the debugging link,,
but i still didn't understand it..(lol to myself)..i am a very newbie user of DIY electronic thingy..and since i have no experience on how to debugging plus i have no reference to what is the working ds clone sounds like, or looks like..so i have no comparison to what i want to debug..i know that the VCO and the sweep is not working..so it must be the IC2 the problem..

and yeah, i'll keep that one,,and make a new one..
would like to try the bareille design,,but i couldn't find one..

hey xptml..
i know it's not your design fault..clearly..
so, i make a new pcb,,and populated it with a new component..
but still the vco is not working..
but the sound is changing,,(compared to the first one)

what is it?? i start to be superstitious about it,,maybe some goat in the shell,,or my hand get a lot of static so it damage the ic and so on..

or maybe the components is broken? (caps, resistor, pots,etc)..
i got the components from the local store though...

i use some 1/4 watt resistors and some 1/2 watt resistors.., and some 50v and some 16v rate elco caps..

and yeah, another samples..

please tell me the simplest way how to debugging this circuit..


thanks


ds8 clone2.mp3
 Description:
here is the second attempt of my ds clone based on xptml / ak47 design..

Download
 Filename:  ds8 clone2.mp3
 Filesize:  4.74 MB
 Downloaded:  158 Time(s)

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JeanFé



Joined: Feb 03, 2013
Posts: 5
Location: France

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Check if any signal at pins 1,7,8 & 14 (on corners) of the LM324 with an audio probe as described in the link. If so, track it until errors with the help of xptml schematic ; could be cold joints, reversed or damaged elements.

You could make your day easier by: splitting the pcb and board-mounting your pots (or just using pcb connectors) / removing the footswitch as it's known to be useless / simplifying ground loop by outboard daisychaining pots & switches & all.

Xptml did a great cloning job, but Coron original package is sooo small! I breadboarded this circuit but ended up etchin a ds7 as the noise circuit was rather disappointing. Added with some nasty PT2399 delay is instant dub madness Smile
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xpmtl



Joined: Aug 10, 2007
Posts: 158
Location: Brussels, Belgium

PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds more like it now but do the sweep or vco pots do anything? The high pitched sound is odd, check your capacitors values and pots wiring.

It's pretty hard to debug a circuit like that and i'm afraid i can't offer much help.

If you can, post a high res picture of your board, maybe I could spot something.

x.

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feggster



Joined: Sep 12, 2011
Posts: 52
Location: uk

PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I built the ak47 and got it working, but was not happy with the noise section..I'm guessing I need to try different transistor/s?
transistor q3 is confusing on the ak47 layout as it is shown as E-C-B (same as the original transistors = 2sc536) not E-B-C like bc547 shown in the BOM.
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tokyomatik



Joined: Jan 20, 2011
Posts: 123
Location: berlin
Audio files: 6

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i built an AK47 an a DS8 from breille and i think the Ak47 noise section is better
I was checking the various things and i think in the DS8 maybe there is a difference that could be the reason:
R38(DS8)is 1M
R21(AK47)is 10M

typo???
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burtondelfuturo



Joined: Jun 10, 2013
Posts: 4
Location: Buenos aires

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:24 pm    Post subject: vac in, secuencer Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello

I'm doing a double coron ds-7 with a ic lm 13700, I would like to know how to connect the two vac in, maybe daniel can help me.
Someone knows some pcb layout for a simple sequencer with two outputs for use on the double coron?

Martin
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nuclearsound



Joined: Jul 16, 2013
Posts: 18
Location: Nantes, France

PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:58 am    Post subject: few questions before switching ON! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi all, and glad to see some people as crazy as me that choose to build stuff.
My major problem is i'm not a proper expert in electronics, although I sucessfully mounted quite a bunch of modules already : Andromeda, Anushri, Noise Hero, Thingamakit...

At present time, I populated 95% of the components required on the board that Marc Bareille provided me, but would need answers to a few questions I have :

- pots for rate and decay : instructions don't match with the wiring sketch for the pins to connect. Which should I follow ?

- same for noise color : the instructions advise to install a switch, but the BOM advises a pot. I bought a pot and would need to know which pins go where.

- last confusion, RV1 trimmer was advised to be a pot actually, that I bought, but i don't know which pins should be soldered where.

- I already mounted a trigger jack socket, and would like to know how to plug ALSO the piezo cell i have. My aim is that the module plays when it has a trigger signal coming or/and a signal coming from the piezo cell.

- For all pots apart from volume, Marc told me to buy log pots, then lin, then back to log... I bought both, chose at random to solder the lin ones. What is the difference between them ?

- last, I enclosed the whole stuff in a mini metal box, and discovered the jacks sockets ends (connected to tips of trigger in and audio out) touch the box, as well as all pots obviously when screwed. Is this a problem ?

I have the instructions pdf file available by PM for any person willing to help, and can also take a hi-res picture of front/back if required.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Antoine
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mosc
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Joined: Jan 31, 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

welcome nuclearsound to electro-music.com
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nuclearsound



Joined: Jul 16, 2013
Posts: 18
Location: Nantes, France

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks mosc !
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nuclearsound



Joined: Jul 16, 2013
Posts: 18
Location: Nantes, France

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi all, could anybody help me ?
Rate & decay questions are already answered.

Good day !
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feggster



Joined: Sep 12, 2011
Posts: 52
Location: uk

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

all the wiring etc. is on his site

http://m.bareille.free.fr/ds7clone/ds8.htm
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nuclearsound



Joined: Jul 16, 2013
Posts: 18
Location: Nantes, France

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i have that, i bought it from him. But there are some differences between the instructions and bom, as I said previously. This is what I would need some info about.
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jumunius



Joined: Apr 19, 2010
Posts: 346
Location: San Francisco, CA
Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: few questions before switching ON! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Nuclearsound. When I started my DS8 I was probably as confused as you. I am not sure I am so much less confused now, but at least I can answer a few questions and have built a working DS8. Wink

nuclearsound wrote:
- same for noise color : the instructions advise to install a switch, but the BOM advises a pot. I bought a pot and would need to know which pins go where.


I don't see where he lists a switch in his BOM, you're right. But there is no mention of a pot to go here ever. Perhaps you are confusing a different pot for this function (vco/noise balance, for example?). A pot won't work. You need a simple SPDT toggle switch.

nuclearsound wrote:
- last confusion, RV1 trimmer was advised to be a pot actually, that I bought, but i don't know which pins should be soldered where.


Yeah, it's not in the wiring diagram, is it? You want the tip of your trigger jack to go to the terminal at the "max" end of your pot. The terminal at the "min" end should go to ground. The middle terminal goes to the J2 Trig board connection.

nuclearsound wrote:

- I already mounted a trigger jack socket, and would like to know how to plug ALSO the piezo cell i have. My aim is that the module plays when it has a trigger signal coming or/and a signal coming from the piezo cell.


You could just put a plug at one end of your piezo so that you could plug it straight into the trigger input. But if you need both at once, I'm not sure. You might be able to get away with just putting both tips to the "max" terminal mentioned above, but I suspect you'd be better off mixing the signals with an op amp. If nobody else in this thread has any input, this is a general enough question that you could post it as its own topic.

Quote:
- For all pots apart from volume, Marc told me to buy log pots, then lin, then back to log... I bought both, chose at random to solder the lin ones. What is the difference between them ?


Logs are generally for audio volume, they have a curve that adjusts for the way our ears perceive volume. But they are useful for decays too, where you want finer tuning in the shorter decays than the longer decays. And some designs are just made for log rather than lin. His wiring diagram specifies which ones are supposed to be log. You will likely find the pots most useful and intuitive when you use the right pot, but either will work.

Quote:
- last, I enclosed the whole stuff in a mini metal box, and discovered the jacks sockets ends (connected to tips of trigger in and audio out) touch the box, as well as all pots obviously when screwed. Is this a problem ?


That's a problem yes. All your jacks probably are grounded to the box, so if your tips are touching the box then you're grounding them too (in other words negating them). A bigger box would be better, but if you would rather not do that, maybe try putting something like electrical tape on the inside to shield the tips from touching. I worry over time that the tape might peel or wear away and then your trigger ins would fail.

Hope this helps!

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nuclearsound



Joined: Jul 16, 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks jumunius for your help ! I'll study that when i'm back home.
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jumunius



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No problem. Two more thoughts.

1) in retrospect I'm not sure that a pot won't work for your noise switch. It seems like it would just mix two colors of noise, and each extreme end (max and min) would give similar results to what you'd get with a switch. You could try it and see. If so, just wire it like the switch, with the same connector going to the center as with a pot. Max and min connectors could go either way. If you don't like any results in the middle, it would suggest a pot is a better option. I would wait to drill a hole til you try it though.

2) one reason to NOT do the simultaneous piezo and jack trigger inputs is that each signal would have different level. If you really want two triggers at the same time, you probably want independent level control for them.

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nuclearsound



Joined: Jul 16, 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'll definitely try the pot (vs. switch) thing!

And for the jack/piezo subject : Since Marc advised to install a pot instead the trimmer, i'll have an easy control on the sensitivity. If I follow the wiring you imagined (both tips to the max terminal of the sens pot), is the pot going to control sensitivity of either piezo and plug ? My aim is not to be able to play both with signal on trigger in and by hitting on the piezo. I just would like to be able to have the choice.
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jumunius



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nuclearsound wrote:
I'll definitely try the pot (vs. switch) thing!

And for the jack/piezo subject : Since Marc advised to install a pot instead the trimmer, i'll have an easy control on the sensitivity. If I follow the wiring you imagined (both tips to the max terminal of the sens pot), is the pot going to control sensitivity of either piezo and plug ? My aim is not to be able to play both with signal on trigger in and by hitting on the piezo. I just would like to be able to have the choice.


How about this: use a switching jack for your trigger input. The normalled/open terminal (switch connection) goes to your piezo. The closed terminal (tip connection) connects to the pot. The shield terminal still goes to ground. This would mean that when nothing is plugged in, your piezo would output to the trigger sensitivity pot. When you plug an external trigger in, then the piezo connection is broken. The sensitivity pot would work for whichever trigger source you are using at the time.

If you leave both in at the same time, I'm not sure if the existence of the piezo would weaken or otherwise mess with the trigger signal. And then, if you rattle the piezo around as you move knobs you might be adding misfires, etc.

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nuclearsound



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:47 am    Post subject: still trying Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for all your returns. With no inverter, i solded together two pins of the noisecolor (middle and top), i hope this is right. At the end of the day, it doesn't work (just a low hum sound) and the battery gets hot in 5 minutes. If you have some clues, i'd be glad to have some help in the testing process (i have a tester and can take a picture if it helps).
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jumunius



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Re: still trying Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nuclearsound wrote:
Thanks for all your returns. With no inverter, i solded together two pins of the noisecolor (middle and top), i hope this is right.


Wait, so what does an inverter have to do with it? Did you mean switch or pot?

If you soldered two pins of the noisecolor switch together (middle and either of the others), you'd get only one choise of noise color. It shouldn't cause the hum or the heating, so that problem would be elsewhere.

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nuclearsound



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yes, translation of the french word was wrong, i meant switch. Indeed the choice was to lock the noise color for the beginning. Any clues ?
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jumunius



Joined: Apr 19, 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nuclearsound wrote:
yes, translation of the french word was wrong, i meant switch. Indeed the choice was to lock the noise color for the beginning. Any clues ?


Ah, ok. Well, the problem you describe (low hum, heating) could describe lots of things. So do the basics first. Start by testing that each IC is getting enough voltage (check voltage on each power rail). Then do a continuity check that everything that that is supposed to go to ground is going to ground. And finally, do a continuity check to prove that all your wiring is good.

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