electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
Live streaming at radio.electro-music.com

  host / artist show at your time
<on air> Jez Adventures in Sound
Please visit the chat
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Synare 3 bipolar supply?
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: jksuperstar, Scott Stites, Uncle Krunkus
Page 1 of 1 [7 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
hoyager



Joined: Feb 16, 2010
Posts: 24
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:30 pm    Post subject: Synare 3 bipolar supply? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey there, I've been trying to find similar circuits to the ones in the synare 3 to get an answer, thought someone might be able to let me know off the bat..

http://clacktronics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Clacktronics_Star_Synare_Schematic.gif

Is it just a matter of replacing all the 6v (vref) points with ground and all the grounds with -v?

VCF and VCA are pretty straight forward conversions

But the other parts...

CMOS 4093 oscillators: these should be +v and ground only right?

This would mean if using +/-12v it would use only +12v and gnd.

Would this result in a onesided wave though?

Envelopes: the grounds marked become -v?

Noise generator: grounds become -v?

Trigger Conditioner: grounds become -v?

The service manual seems to be more correct, as in marks the power points in a bipolar fashion, except the oscillators, which I'm starting to understand wouldn't be able to handle +12v at pin 14 and -12v at pin 7??

Andy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
richardc64



Joined: Jun 01, 2006
Posts: 609
Location: NYC
Audio files: 25

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

WHY, exactly, do you want to do that?
_________________
"I am endeavoring, ma'am, to create a mnemonic memory circuit... using stone
knives and bearskins." -- Spock to Edith Keeler
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
hoyager



Joined: Feb 16, 2010
Posts: 24
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The service manual says, there will be hum if using an external power source with the current power scheme.

Also I already have lots of 15 and 12v regulators and don't want to use batteries.

Seems obvious especially as the original was meant to be hit with a stick but this seems to be a point of failure, the battery clips and attachments etc.

Really need someone who knows a bit about the power requirements of cmos and using cmos as an oscillator which would run through a vcf with *normal* bipolar supply and wether this would be fine.

I'm one step away from laying it out, just want to check if I'm on the right track

Cheers
Andy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3721
Location: Germany
Audio files: 23

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hoyager wrote:
The service manual says, there will be hum if using an external power source with the current power scheme.

i believe the hum problem would occure if you connected vref to earth. if you used sockets and other front panel components which ground connections are isolated from the front panel, than you are good, i believe. the subsequent modules input needed to be AC coupled, too.
i really would appreciate if someone else with firm knowledge could chime in here.

Quote:
Really need someone who knows a bit about the power requirements of cmos and using cmos as an oscillator which would run through a vcf with *normal* bipolar supply and wether this would be fine.

the GND pin of the CMOS would have to be connected to your new negative rail (since in the schematic above GND was the negative rail, actually, with reference to vref of 6V).
CMOS is available with max supply voltage rating rating up to 20V. thus you could use a bipolar supply with i.e. +/-9V (18V across the CMOS).

_________________
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
cheers,
matthias
____________
fonitronik at
FlickR (pix) / SoundCloud (sounds) / YouTube (vids) / Vimeo (vids) / facebook (news)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
hoyager



Joined: Feb 16, 2010
Posts: 24
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So the input and output jack grounds, would go to the dc adapter's ground, regardless of the rest of the circuit?

I think that might be the one, use 9v then the cmos are happy either way

Wonder why they didn't do that in the first place though, with 2 batteries and all...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
richardc64



Joined: Jun 01, 2006
Posts: 609
Location: NYC
Audio files: 25

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Does anyone know off-hand how many posts there's been of someone trying to make something single-supply into bipolar and then FUCKED IT UP?

hoyager wrote:
The service manual says, there will be hum if using an external power source with the current power scheme.


The copy I have (which may not be the same,) goes on to say "...unless the source is well filtered."

_________________
"I am endeavoring, ma'am, to create a mnemonic memory circuit... using stone
knives and bearskins." -- Spock to Edith Keeler
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
hoyager



Joined: Feb 16, 2010
Posts: 24
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'll try and keep that in mind (not fucking it up)

The VCF and VCA are going to work better on bipolar (which are the main parts of the whole circuit) and I already know how they 'convert', having built OTA based vcf's running on bipolar before.

If the cmos chips can def be run from +9v at vdd and -9v at vss, then I think its going to be all good.

Except the trigger conditioner...

It would be more difficult the other way wouldn't it, bipolar to single supply?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: jksuperstar, Scott Stites, Uncle Krunkus
Page 1 of 1 [7 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
emSynth

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use