electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
Live streaming at radio.electro-music.com

  host / artist show at your time
  Faux Pas Quartet and friends Music From Last Thursday
Please visit the chat
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
The ReVibe
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: jksuperstar, Scott Stites, Uncle Krunkus
Page 2 of 2 [46 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: Previous 1, 2
Author Message
Uncle Krunkus
Moderator


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4759
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'll add the stripboard layouts ASAP. Smile
_________________
What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
tony void



Joined: Apr 26, 2011
Posts: 38
Location: Parma, Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Exciting piece! I've yet to build my own spring reverb but I've played around with amplified springs in the past using mallets, bows, glass slides, etc. fx pedals as well. Very inspiring work Unkle!! Those mp3s rock too!

-void
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Uncle Krunkus
Moderator


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4759
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've done a couple of mods, and the quality keeps getting better.
I swapped out the 500KLin feedback pot for a 1MLog one. This is much better! With feedback set to "0", I can get the Volume and Drive controls up around the 70% before I start to get a high pitched ringing, and a sudden increase in noise level.
But,.... because I can drive the speaker harder, without uncontrolled feedback, I'm getting more signal induced in the coil. I can then bring the feedback up, just to the point of extended decay.
I also cut a further 5 turns off the spring, and soldered it to the top (piezo) hook. (It was just hanging there before) Then I noticed a lump of solder on the lower connection, between two spring turns. It was sitting up enough to touch the turn above it, but not actually holding it mechanically. By re-soldering it and solidifying the bond, under tension, I've killed the spring chatter by 80-90%, depending on how hard you drive the speaker. So the chatter is still an optional mode, but it doesn't dominate the "working" area of Volume settings.
Anyway,....

Here's a new sample.
This time I'm taking a left and right out of the DR202 (all internal effects off), and sending one side through the ReVibe. So you can hear the original sonic quality which is going in fully right, and the line out level from the ReVibe fully left.
I'm gonna do a spectrum analysis of both sides later, but you can see right away, if you open it up in Soundforge etc, the two waves going by. The relevance seems pretty reasonable, and you can clearly see the initial delay of the spring.
First off all three controls are at 9 o'clock, after the raw test I bring the drive control up for a couple of bars, then back to 9 o'clock and I start bringing the feedback up slowly. After a bit of feedback stuff, I play with the main volume control. Then I start "playing" the structure.
Sorry it's so long and repetitive. Just mucking around. Could be a good sample in there somewhere! Laughing


ReVibe Stereo 27-6-12b.mp3
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  ReVibe Stereo 27-6-12b.mp3
 Filesize:  7.23 MB
 Downloaded:  197 Time(s)


_________________
What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Uncle Krunkus
Moderator


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4759
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've just found out that when I save as an .mp3 out of Soundforge, the left and right channels contaminate each other quite severely. Shocked
Has anyone else found this?

_________________
What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Uncle Krunkus
Moderator


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4759
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Looks I've got a dodgy mp3 encoder. It's fine if I pull back from 320Kb/s to 256Kb/s. Strange hey?
Anyway, I'll do this test again later. The one I posted is at least partially separated, and it's kinda fun anyway.

_________________
What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
dougseidel



Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Posts: 63
Location: NJ

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i love this - it's beautiful device also, the way you built it.
_________________
http://soundcloud.com/douglasmseidel

http://dougseidel/tumblr.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Uncle Krunkus
Moderator


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4759
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just thought I'd add that when you do listen to the properly separated sample, the repetition of the drums and bass give a better idea of what the ReVibe is doing over time.
The bass promotes a deep rumbling which slowly follows the bassline and is big, but quite cool. With a lowpass filter, and dropped in volume, it would make a nice deep wash behind any low frequency sound.
Also, I've noticed that the hi-hat sometimes sounds like it's going through a flanger. I s'pose this is due to the high frequencies getting a relatively short delay as they first hit the spring. It comes and goes, depending on what other vibrations have been set up already, and is quite unpredictable. This is exactly the kind of stuff I was hoping for, as these complex interactions in the physically of the unit would be very hard to simulate in other ways.

_________________
What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
JingleJoe



Joined: Nov 10, 2011
Posts: 878
Location: Lancashire, England
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Regarding making it better, just had a look at your schematic, did you try wiring up the feedback pot as a voltage divider? I'd try making a passive mixer, for the lm386 input, mixing the input and feedback via pots wired as voltage dividers.
_________________
As a mad scientist I am ruled by the dictum of science: "I could be wrong about this but lets find out"


Green Dungeon Alchemist Laboratories
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SineHacker



Joined: Mar 09, 2010
Posts: 99
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey, I am working on a crude spring reverb, I just started a thread, but I think I will move the conversation over here as you have got a bit further. I am using an LM386 setup similar to yours (I am using a schematic from the datasheet - the one with bass boost but with a few caps substituted as this sounded great with classical guitar with a piezo pickup on the body). I used a 4049 circuit for the piezo pickup from Nicolas Collins designs (can't find a schematic to quickly link to, but I will post one if you are interested) which works a treat with a little high end roll off.

I am trying to get feedback working as well in hope that this will extend the reverberation a little. I'm going to try out some of the stuff you have here but i'm not using any transistors in my setup - I have some 2n3819, do you think they might work the same as yours, at least on the amp side?

As for the self-oscillation rumble, I was getting that as well even without trying to add a feedback route, but I found this was a lot to do with excess wire on the lm386 side, or wire passing over wire and things, I guess when I solder it up some shielding might be in order.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
SineHacker



Joined: Mar 09, 2010
Posts: 99
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

well I didn't find need for transistors after some tests, the 2n3819's were just dropping signal for me in the same configuration as above, admittedly I don't know much about them!

I used a 100uf supply filter cap (this is what decoupling is, right?) like JingleJoe suggested here: http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-54234.html and from the original schematic on this thread, and that has worked a treat on cleaning up the input signal, thanks!

I am in two minds over how to finish it at the moment. If I use two batteries and two circuits then I get a perfect "wet" signal, but can't get any feedback. If I use a single battery and join the circuits then I get a lot of the dry signal spilling into the wet, and it also starts picking up radio frequencies! but I can get feedback using a similar configuration to Uncle Krunkus

feedback isn't actually extending the reverb at all but it does sound cool

I was wondering if there was a compact way I could drive four smaller speakers, where the first speaker carries the input signal from an instrument down one spring and then the next three are driven by piezos - I'm guessing I would need four amps to do this but it might still be a nice compact solution for a longer reverb.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Uncle Krunkus
Moderator


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4759
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow dude! Shocked
Love that construction! Cool
I never even thought of adding more than one string and pickup. And yes, I reckon driver into pickup into driver * 4 sounds the bomb!
You could even experiment with cross springing the four springs. (You know those really tiny elastic springs you can get out of old tape decks?)
Oh what a tangled web we weave!! Laughing
Seriously though, mine has way too much bottom end, I had to put that big cap across the driver to calm down the endless rumbles. Then again, you are using thinner springs, and I'm not sure how much tension they're under. May be a better (different?) set of vibration frequencies altogether. Confused
This is why I wanted to see what others came up with. Smile

BTW, I'd love a copy of that 4049 pickup. Very Happy

_________________
What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Uncle Krunkus
Moderator


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4759
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I like the larger box idea dude. But I must admit that I'd go for solid wood once you get to that size. The plastic will just send way too much dry signal direct to the piezo/s. You want to minimise that mechanical coupling as much as possible.
You've got me thinking now of a solid wooden cabinet. Possibly built out of old fence palings.(These are the cheapest hardwood around! Wink ) With boards either end, mounted on that 1" squidgy rubber stuff you can get from Clark Rubber (Aus) One board contains the 3-4 drivers, one contains the 3-4 pickups.
You could even have rotary switches on the stereo outputs, to select which output you're monitoring.
Possibly even selective feedback!! Surprised
Oh man,...... this is gonna happen! Cool

_________________
What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
SineHacker



Joined: Mar 09, 2010
Posts: 99
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, i didn't test it too much for plastic feedback! I kinda presumed it would be a problem hence the sponge padding - this however does very little as tapping on the box is way louder than anything the springs can really produce!!

I just did some recording and used some headphones in the process which has made me change a couple of things;In the end I decided that actually the difference between having the circuits linked or separate is so minor that it probably doesn't matter. I took out the top end roll-off from the pick up section as well, this is controlled by a small cap and I found it was actually a bit extreme, so I think I will find a cap that has a lower effect and add a switch as well.

I tried the feedback again with the circuits running from one supply, listening with headphones I found it sounded a lot better than I thought and does seem to affect the tail to an extent before it goes into oscillation, I did record this but Logic balls'd it up somehow

this recording shows the sound first with two separate circuits and then with them linked together (recorded with a homemade mic, the noise at the end was caused by me)

http://soundcloud.com/aidantaylor/reverb-test

I will draw up a schematic for the 4049 pick up now
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
SineHacker



Joined: Mar 09, 2010
Posts: 99
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

just as a note, adding a really small cap in parallel with the pot will give you the high-end roll off, the larger the cap, the more roll off. Like in your schematic, I used a 100uf cap to decouple the lm386 side and a 220uf cap for the 4049 side when using a single battery
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Uncle Krunkus
Moderator


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4759
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds really nice dude! Very Happy
_________________
What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
SineHacker



Joined: Mar 09, 2010
Posts: 99
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the springs are pretty loose in mine, my original idea was to have each at different tensions with the idea that you would get a fuller range in the reverb, but it was a bit difficult with the tools and materials I had at home so I just ended up glueing it together! Rolling Eyes

I'm gonna try soldering mine up with the feedback loop now - I think further revisions can go in the next model!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
SineHacker



Joined: Mar 09, 2010
Posts: 99
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

I made so many mistakes when soldering that I am surprised it actually worked in the end!! I got all the pots back to front as well Confused

had a play and it sounds nice but it's not very versatile - mine also turned out to be bass heavy as hell, when I tested it earlier today from the breadboard I didn't pick up on that, nor in the recordings Confused I used my own adaption of the "bass boost" in the lm386 datasheet thinking it would improve the tinny sound of piezo's, but it probably isn't necessary at all here!

You know you were saying about putting a capacitor across the speaker terminals, I realised I had done a similar thing earlier on by putting a 100k resistor from the speaker output on the board to ground (I think again this is a suggestion in the lm386 datasheet and I tried it to reduce rumble) so I just soldered it across the speaker terminals in the end.

Still picking up a lot of radio traffic Rolling Eyes I'm gonna try to shield the boards when I next have a go at this I think
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
JingleJoe



Joined: Nov 10, 2011
Posts: 878
Location: Lancashire, England
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sheilding your wires will stop you picking up more radio traffic Smile You can get some nice little wires with stranded sheilding, especially for audio applications like this, out of old tape players Wink
_________________
As a mad scientist I am ruled by the dictum of science: "I could be wrong about this but lets find out"


Green Dungeon Alchemist Laboratories
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Uncle Krunkus
Moderator


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4759
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd definitely lose the 100K across the speaker and replace it with a 47uF bi-polar cap. This will help with the bottom end. The 100K resistor wouldn't do anything helpful at all AFAIK.
_________________
What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
ANNILOG



Joined: Aug 20, 2007
Posts: 5
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:27 am    Post subject: The ReVibe
Subject description: Worth a read
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi All

Looking for information on spring reverb I came across this

http://www.electronicpeasant.com/projects/thermio/thermio.html

With 300v from the transformer this is NOT circuit bending but the background information is useful

Brian
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SineHacker



Joined: Mar 09, 2010
Posts: 99
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice!
_________________
aidanrtaylor.co.uk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: jksuperstar, Scott Stites, Uncle Krunkus
Page 2 of 2 [46 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: Previous 1, 2
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use