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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
cmos based Dubsiren
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DUBmatze



Joined: Feb 18, 2013
Posts: 98
Location: south Germaica (schwabilon)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:20 am    Post subject: cmos based Dubsiren
Subject description: Siren alongside cmos
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the classic Dubsiren is a design with 2* LM555.
Today i finished my "lunettastyle" Siren with cmos. (4093, 4046)

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

here is a quick video (sorry not the best sound quality)
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PHOBoS



Joined: Jan 14, 2010
Posts: 1724
Location: Moon Base
Audio files: 346

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nice one Very Happy

I did spot one small mistake in the schematic, the power pins for the CD4093 should be 7 and 14. Since you have one spare NAND it could be used to
make another oscillator. If you connect it to pin 5 of the 4046 you can modulate the VCO (on/off), or if you connect it to pin 14, short pins 3 and 4
and take the ouput from pin 2 you will get a ringmod signal of the VCO and the oscillator. not sure if that's a sound usefull for a dub siren though,
and you allready have it build in a nice box anyway. Cool

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DUBmatze



Joined: Feb 18, 2013
Posts: 98
Location: south Germaica (schwabilon)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Phobos,

i uploaded a corected version.

Switching the osc on and off i tryed two devices earlier - i wasnt happy with it:
Smile


the ringmodthing is somthing for my modular Lunetta i think ...
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commathe



Joined: Jul 26, 2013
Posts: 80
Location: Beijing
Audio files: 5

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the LFO speed/LFO style section looks really interesting. How does it work?
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DUBmatze



Joined: Feb 18, 2013
Posts: 98
Location: south Germaica (schwabilon)

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello commathe,

my plan was feeding the 4046 with a triangle voltage to get the classic "ni-no-ni-no" sound (like my 2 years old son say).

So i grab the voltage on the input of the 4093 oscillator. While i am breadboarding this i notice when i connect somthing to the output or input of the oscillator it destroy the geometry of the triangle. so i keep trying with different duty cycle circuits. (i.e. http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-47266.html)

After some trys i added a pulldown resistor (91k) to the input. Now the pots called "LFO Speed" and "LFO Style" change the frequency of the LFO. "LFO speed" gives the bigest amount of frequency change, but i need to adjust the duty cycle with "LFO Style" to stay at the "ni-no-ni-no"-sound. othewise i get a slower "iou-iou-iou-iou"- or a faster "di-di-di-di"-sound.

I think the "ni-no" is a /\/\ at the input of the 4046. the "iou-iou" is more like /|/| (raising ramp) and the "di-di" is more like |\|\ (falling ramp). that all happens because the load at the input of the 4093 prevent the cap from loading "normal".

Maybe a stereo pot with two diffrerent resistors and diodes will help here to stay always at a triangle. -> but i like the 2 pots at the siren Wink

maybe some1 else can explain it better.
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commathe



Joined: Jul 26, 2013
Posts: 80
Location: Beijing
Audio files: 5

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Awesome! Thanks for the explanation! I hope to breadboard me up one of these soon!
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DUBmatze



Joined: Feb 18, 2013
Posts: 98
Location: south Germaica (schwabilon)

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Till at the conntrols:

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schmelfhelp



Joined: Apr 15, 2012
Posts: 16
Location: france

PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've been trying to make this circuit but not much luck. so far I'm just getting a tone with 2 of the knobs not really doing much. I was wondering what diodes you are using?

cheers
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DUBmatze



Joined: Feb 18, 2013
Posts: 98
Location: south Germaica (schwabilon)

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mhm ... my webserver is down.... (maybe you can upload the shematic to this forum)
i have used 1n4148 for this.


If you only get a permanent tone the LFO isnt working.
Try this LFO section:


basicdubsiren.png
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basicdubsiren.png



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schmelfhelp



Joined: Apr 15, 2012
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Location: france

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks! I'll give that a try.
I found a cached version of the schematic.
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schmelfhelp



Joined: Apr 15, 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

so that worked better but i could only get sound to work for the square wave when I don't have a resistor running to +

How does the logic work when input 1+2 are tied together?

Cheers
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PHOBoS



Joined: Jan 14, 2010
Posts: 1724
Location: Moon Base
Audio files: 346

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

schmelfhelp wrote:
so that worked better but i could only get sound to work for the square wave when I don't have a resistor running to +

hmm looks like the diode needs to be reversed for that to work.

Quote:
How does the logic work when input 1+2 are tied together?

just as an inverter.
You can also tie one leg to + which improves the schmitt trigger function.
At least that's what I remember reading somehwhere.

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schmelfhelp



Joined: Apr 15, 2012
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Location: france

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks! i'll give that a go with the diode. It's sounding pretty nice, one siren type sound and then a modulated sound which is true to your diagram.

I also just tried adding in the parts like the first circuit diagram. I'm not having much luck with it. are the second and third inverters just to operate the LED?

Also what is the purpose of the 1000u cap? again, it's not doing anything much for me at the moment. might give the first circuit a fresh go in the morning.

Cheers
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DUBmatze



Joined: Feb 18, 2013
Posts: 98
Location: south Germaica (schwabilon)

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

schmelfhelp wrote:
How does the logic work when input 1+2 are tied together?

Code:
A B = Y
1 1 = 0
0 0 = 1

so this is just a Inverter. (like 6x in the 40106)

schmelfhelp wrote:
so that worked better but i could only get sound to work for the square wave when I don't have a resistor running to +

when you dont use the Resistor to + you shud get a Squarewave with 0 - 5 Volts. The 4046 dont produce a Sound with 0V at CVin (pin 9). So you hear a wee --- wee --- wee sound (sound on, Sound off, Sound on ....). the resistor to + shud make the CV somthing like 1-5V. so you hear a high sound - low sound - high sound. (wee mhh wee mhh). when the output of the NAND Output is low ..... the diode just prevent the Voltage behind the resistor shorted to ground....

check this Sound sample:

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DUBmatze



Joined: Feb 18, 2013
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Location: south Germaica (schwabilon)

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ups maybe 10k is a bit low try 100, 200k or so .....
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DUBmatze



Joined: Feb 18, 2013
Posts: 98
Location: south Germaica (schwabilon)

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mhm iam to slow.....

schmelfhelp wrote:
Also what is the purpose of the 1000u cap? again, it's not doing anything much for me at the moment. might give the first circuit a fresh go in the morning.

the 1000u cap makes the Siren like a Air Siren ..... so when u release the button it keeps running and the pitch is going slow down.....

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