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wildcat VS SH101 Slide-Glide (solved)
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isak



Joined: Dec 13, 2009
Posts: 690
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:03 am    Post subject:  wildcat VS SH101 Slide-Glide (solved) Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi guys.

i wanna build the wildcat silde/glide module (page 9)
http://www.modular.fonik.de/files/EFMforum/orgEFMfiles/wildcat_001.pdf

is it ok to replace 2N5460, with 2N5461 or 2N5462?
i have the datasheet but i dont understand if it could be done.
http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/2N5460-D.PDF

now, i looked at the sh101 scheme and saw that the wildcat and the sh101 is almost the same scheme of the slide/glide.
its not the first time i see similarity in the wildcat and sh101, also the subosc are the same.
take a look (page 7)
http://manuals.fdiskc.com/flat/Roland%20SH101%20Service%20Manual.pdf

cheers,
Isak E.

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Last edited by isak on Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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isak



Joined: Dec 13, 2009
Posts: 690
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i just found an interesting thing..
i built the EFM slide + glide, you can see it in the next link:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-61773.html
i thought it would work like the SH101 glide + slide (portamento), meaning in the AUTO mode it will do portamento as expected, in the ON mode it will do the portamento only if you press one key, keep on pressing and press a higher note and only then it will glide.

i found that the EFM works the same as the SH101 portamento but only if i connect the module via CV and GATE keyboards and not via midi to cv.
why is that?
any in lighting on this matter would be appreciated.

cheers,
Isak E.

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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

isak wrote:
i found that the EFM works the same as the SH101 portamento but only if i connect the module via CV and GATE keyboards and not via midi to cv.
why is that?
any in lighting on this matter would be appreciated.

cheers,
Isak E.

you talk about the slide, i believe?

what do you mean by: it does not work with midi2cv?

the slide is a kinf of gated glide. CV goes into 'B' (the eactual glide RC network), however, the variable R (of the RC) is shortened by the P-channel JFET.
does the gating work?

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cheers,
matthias
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isak



Joined: Dec 13, 2009
Posts: 690
Location: Israel
Audio files: 18

PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi matthias.

Yes I mean the slide.
it works with midi2cv but not as it should.
I'll explain.
I have a x0xb0x that outputs CV an Gate, when connecting the cv and gate directly to the EFM module it acts exactly like I want it to act.
Meaning...when on gated mode, pressing a note and keep on pressing, while pressing a note, press on higher or lower note and only then it will slide.
When doing the same via midi2cv using midi keyboards it works but not like the regular CV, Gate Keyboards.
What happens with the midi2cv when on gated mode is...
press a note and release my finger from the keyboard, press on higher or lower note then it makes a short slide, press a long press on the note then it makes slide, its not suppose to do that.

Shortly....on the gated mode it suppose to slide only when I hit 2 notes simultaneously.
when cv, gate keyboards is applied it works as it should, when with midi2cv via midi keyboards it's working but not like when cv and gate keyboards is applied.
Hope its more clear now.
If its not clear I'll make vid that explain what I mean.

Cheers,
Isak E.

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Dave Kendall



Joined: May 26, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Isak.

Do you have access to an oscilloscope? I think the key to this is to look at exactly what GATE signals the XOXbox and the MIDI2CV are outputting. If CV and GATE are the only two connections to the SLIDE/GLIDE module from the XOXbox or MIDI2CV, then there must be a difference in the GATE signal between the XOX and the M2CV.

FWIW, the wildcat slide/glide was designed to be used with EFM MIDI to CV units, which were based on Trevor Page's designs aimed at 303-type emulation. They had a separate output that would *only* go high when a note was held down and another one was pressed. I think that behaviour is what you're after?

cheers,
Dave

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isak



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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Dave.

Thank you For your reply.
I have a scope so yes, I can check the gate signals on both.
Before the test I can say for sure that the x0x is outputting 12Vgate while the midi2cv outputting only 5V gate.
Maybe this is the deferences that makes the EFM module to act deferent?
I have an idea...I'll connect the midi2cv CV out to the EFM module and the x0x gate to the EFM module, I'll see how it reacts and report back.

Thanks again Dave.
Isak E.

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isak



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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Dave.

I did the test with the midi2cv when the gate is 15V, that didn't help.
I took some pics of the gate deferences between the x0xb0x gate and midi2cv gate.
The upper signal is the midi2cv, the lower signal is the x0x.
As you will see in the midi2cv gate it's perfect pulse.
In the x0x it's a bit deferent, the start of the pulse is as it should the end of the pulse is fade out.
One other defence is V between the pulses, the midi2cv is 5V while the x0x is 12V.
What do you think?

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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Dave Kendall



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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Isak.

OK - couple of questions, and some thoughts. . . .
What make is the MIDI2CV unit you are using?

With the xox connected in GATED mode to the EFM slide, what is the GATE output when only ONE note is pressed? My guess is there is *no* GATE. I would guess in another mode, the xox *always* outputs gates when any note or notes are pressed?

Looking at the EFM schemo, the RC glide circuit is bypassed when no GATE is present, and is active for as long as a GATE is sent to it's GATE input.
That's all it does, so the problem must be in different ways the xox and MIDI2CV send gates.

It wouldn't hurt to have an additional 10V GATE output from your MIDI2CV. A small opamp amplifier with a gain of two is all that's needed. The EFM glide may not recognise a gate if its level is too low, but a 10V gate would work on +12V, and certainly won't hurt it. (the LED driver in the schemo is optional)

Let me know how you get on!

cheers,
Dave

P.S. The opamp is powered from ±12 or ±15V, and the downward-pointing arrow is GND in this schemo, not -V.


2 X GAIN SINGLE OPAMP.jpg
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isak



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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Dave.

Quote:
What make is the MIDI2CV unit you are using?

sorry i dont understand the question.
i guess your asking what kind of midi2cv i'm using.
well, its the midi2cv lite by ACX.
http://www.acxsynth.com/midi2cvlite/midi2cvlitefr.htm

Quote:
With the xox connected in GATED mode to the EFM slide, what is the GATE output when only ONE note is pressed? My guess is there is *no* GATE. I would guess in another mode, the xox *always* outputs gates when any note or notes are pressed?

the x0x always outputs gate when press a note, play sequencer and even when editing a pattern.

Quote:
It wouldn't hurt to have an additional 10V GATE output from your MIDI2CV. A small opamp amplifier with a gain of two is all that's needed. The EFM glide may not recognise a gate if its level is too low, but a 10V gate would work on +12V, and certainly won't hurt it. (the LED driver in the schemo is optional)

thank you for the scheme.
i have something nice to boost the gate from 5 to 12V or 15V, its from the x0x scheme.
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-59164.html
i did the experiment using 5V from the midi2cv and boost it to 15V, didnt helped.
i know your right about the gate output cause i took the midi2cv CV and the x0x gate and connect both to the EFM slide, it worked as its should.

i thank you again for your help.

cheers,
Isak E.

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isak



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Dave.

i think i'm on to something.
your right about the gate when i think about it.
you know why it works like it should with the x0xb0x?
cause the x0x has a slide (Legato) in his sequencer as a feature (like in the
TB303), so i think what i'm looking for is Legato Portamento.
the midi2cv does not have Legato, this is why its not working, i think.
what do you think?

EDIT:
it works!
thank you Sebo!
read about it here:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-41487.html

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