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dingebre
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 270
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA
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 Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:13 am Post subject:
Resource for Vintage Audio Gear Manuals |
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Wasn't sure that this fit into a sub-forum. If so, apologies for posting it here.
I'm not affiliated with the site, just a happy customer.
http://www.stereomanuals.com/index.htm
Rick has thousands of re-printed manuals for various 70s and 80s audio gear. Great quality, fast shipping, reasonable price.
I was looking for a complete, good copy of the Moog Modular Service manual for some time now and the PDFs on the net are incomplete, poor quality, and just annoying.
Rick has the complete manual with the 11x17 inch pullout pages, great quality copy, and bound. I bought two. One to keep clean, one to pull apart to mark up as I'm building circuits.
No, I won't make copies for you  Support Rick's site and buy one.
David
David
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_________________
David M. Ingebretsen, M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Enginering, Inc.
dingebre@3dphysics.net
http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html |
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MusicMan11712
Joined: Aug 08, 2009
Posts: 1082
Location: Out scouting . . .
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:08 pm Post subject:
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If I recall correctly, this site is a commercial site that charges money for print outs. I am not sure if that's where I got one for like $28.00 when all I wanted was a pdf.
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find a pdf until a year or two later.
If people want a good quality printout, that's great; they can "support" this vendor if they like. For people that don't need these printouts, pdfs freely available on the internet are a perfect solution.
As for me, if the one I got was indeed from this site, I already posted a link to a site where people can get a pdf. If somewhere down the road you find a pdf of the one you ordered from this site, I hope your vendor loyalty won't dissuade you from posting the link.
Steve |
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dingebre
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 270
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:46 pm Post subject:
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| MusicMan11712 wrote: | If I recall correctly, this site is a commercial site that charges money for print outs. I am not sure if that's where I got one for like $28.00 when all I wanted was a pdf.
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find a pdf until a year or two later.
If people want a good quality printout, that's great; they can "support" this vendor if they like. For people that don't need these printouts, pdfs freely available on the internet are a perfect solution.
As for me, if the one I got was indeed from this site, I already posted a link to a site where people can get a pdf. If somewhere down the road you find a pdf of the one you ordered from this site, I hope your vendor loyalty won't dissuade you from posting the link.
Steve |
You're absolutely correct. I wrote they are "re-printed", with "pullout pages" and that I "bought two". I thought my post was clear, these are paper manuals you pay for. These aren't PDFs, (nor are they the ripoffs I found on ebay which are re-prints of the crappy PDFs on the net).
The problem is the only "free" PDFs of the Moog service manual I could find are incomplete, and many pages are cut off. You get what you pay for. I wanted a complete, high quality copy I could read and use.
His site is clear that he is providing a printed manual, not a PDF.
No, I won't scan the complete manual and post a "link". If you're happy with the incomplete PDF of the Moog service manual (or other poor scans), that's great. I wanted something that I could actually use.
David
_________________
David M. Ingebretsen, M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Enginering, Inc.
dingebre@3dphysics.net
http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html |
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MusicMan11712
Joined: Aug 08, 2009
Posts: 1082
Location: Out scouting . . .
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:55 pm Post subject:
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Well, I tried to be positive, but it looks like I didn't succeed.
| dingebre wrote: | | These aren't PDFs, (nor are they the ripoffs I found on ebay which are re-prints of the crappy PDFs on the net). |
I haven't ordered any of the overpriced originals or crappy reprints listed on e-bay. Here I would urge people to find the pdfs online themselves rather than taking the e-bay risk. Just my opinion, but one should always ask if the manual is an original, a copy of an original, or a copy of an e-document. One should also make sure there is a customer satisfaction return policy. Further, e-bayers should copy the listing in case the listing fraudulently says, "original, not a reprint" and the buyer-protection plan is needed.
| dingebre wrote: | | The problem is the only "free" PDFs of the Moog service manual I could find are incomplete, and many pages are cut off. You get what you pay for. I wanted a complete, high quality copy I could read and use. |
I don't know about the quality of Moog service manuals on the internet. The only copies I have are from a 1969/1970 era Moog I copied from originals probably around 1971 or 1972. I have been told that those are incomplete, too--possibly because they were not accurate in the first place or because there were subsequent changes made. But, I am not an expert in Moog manuals, so I will differ to your experiences.
| dingebre wrote: | | No, I won't scan the complete manual and post a "link". |
I think you misread what I wrote. I wasn't suggesting you scan it and make it available. To the best of my knowledge, no one here did.
| dingebre wrote: | | If you're happy with the incomplete PDF of the Moog service manual (or other poor scans), that's great. I wanted something that I could actually use. |
Oh! I didn't realize you were only suggesting people use the service to order Moog manuals. I thought you were suggesting it as a good place for any manual people were looking for. Apologies if I misunderstood.
Seriously, though, I am not sure Stout and Associates needs any additional promotion here--it always seems to come up on internet searches for manuals I look for. I was trying to encourage others who might see your post to look for pdfs--which are often on the internet but which may be difficult to find through internet searches.
Personally, I think it would be better to have an index to pdfs that are available--sometimes you have to look on the 25th or 30th Google search page because there are so many other listings--including for commercial establishments selling manuals--regardless of whether they have the one being searched for on not.
In fact, it might be good if such an index has user reviews. "This manual is an off-centered scan of the original manual from 1985 with brief Japanese comments on about 15% of the pages." Etc.
I would think that you would favor this kind of thing. That way you could share the results of your efforts in trying to locate manuals. I don't know if you speak from experience with e-bay purchases, but if so, why not make up for it by sharing your efforts. If your specialty is Moog manuals, you could review the ones you have looked at so that others don't get an incomplete one or a crappy, off-centered copy.
By the way, Stout and Associates does indeed say they are planning to have a catalog of about 500,000 manuals in pdf form available.
Again, the free pdfs available already might be crappy or they might be good or even excellent. I happen to have some at both ends. For the most part, the crappy ones are crappy because of the way those manuals were originally prepared.
Caveat emptor!
Steve |
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dingebre
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 270
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:25 pm Post subject:
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Wow...
Just trying to share a resource others might find useful. It's not my site.
No, you didn't succeed at being positive at all. Maybe try again?
David
| MusicMan11712 wrote: | Well, I tried to be positive, but it looks like I didn't succeed.
| dingebre wrote: | | These aren't PDFs, (nor are they the ripoffs I found on ebay which are re-prints of the crappy PDFs on the net). |
I haven't ordered any of the overpriced originals or crappy reprints listed on e-bay. Here I would urge people to find the pdfs online themselves rather than taking the e-bay risk. Just my opinion, but one should always ask if the manual is an original, a copy of an original, or a copy of an e-document. One should also make sure there is a customer satisfaction return policy. Further, e-bayers should copy the listing in case the listing fraudulently says, "original, not a reprint" and the buyer-protection plan is needed.
| dingebre wrote: | | The problem is the only "free" PDFs of the Moog service manual I could find are incomplete, and many pages are cut off. You get what you pay for. I wanted a complete, high quality copy I could read and use. |
I don't know about the quality of Moog service manuals on the internet. The only copies I have are from a 1969/1970 era Moog I copied from originals probably around 1971 or 1972. I have been told that those are incomplete, too--possibly because they were not accurate in the first place or because there were subsequent changes made. But, I am not an expert in Moog manuals, so I will differ to your experiences.
| dingebre wrote: | | No, I won't scan the complete manual and post a "link". |
I think you misread what I wrote. I wasn't suggesting you scan it and make it available. To the best of my knowledge, no one here did.
| dingebre wrote: | | If you're happy with the incomplete PDF of the Moog service manual (or other poor scans), that's great. I wanted something that I could actually use. |
Oh! I didn't realize you were only suggesting people use the service to order Moog manuals. I thought you were suggesting it as a good place for any manual people were looking for. Apologies if I misunderstood.
Seriously, though, I am not sure Stout and Associates needs any additional promotion here--it always seems to come up on internet searches for manuals I look for. I was trying to encourage others who might see your post to look for pdfs--which are often on the internet but which may be difficult to find through internet searches.
Personally, I think it would be better to have an index to pdfs that are available--sometimes you have to look on the 25th or 30th Google search page because there are so many other listings--including for commercial establishments selling manuals--regardless of whether they have the one being searched for on not.
In fact, it might be good if such an index has user reviews. "This manual is an off-centered scan of the original manual from 1985 with brief Japanese comments on about 15% of the pages." Etc.
I would think that you would favor this kind of thing. That way you could share the results of your efforts in trying to locate manuals. I don't know if you speak from experience with e-bay purchases, but if so, why not make up for it by sharing your efforts. If your specialty is Moog manuals, you could review the ones you have looked at so that others don't get an incomplete one or a crappy, off-centered copy.
By the way, Stout and Associates does indeed say they are planning to have a catalog of about 500,000 manuals in pdf form available.
Again, the free pdfs available already might be crappy or they might be good or even excellent. I happen to have some at both ends. For the most part, the crappy ones are crappy because of the way those manuals were originally prepared.
Caveat emptor!
Steve |
_________________
David M. Ingebretsen, M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Enginering, Inc.
dingebre@3dphysics.net
http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html |
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MusicMan11712
Joined: Aug 08, 2009
Posts: 1082
Location: Out scouting . . .
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:53 pm Post subject:
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| dingebre wrote: | Wow...
Just trying to share a resource others might find useful. It's not my site.
No, you didn't succeed at being positive at all. Maybe try again?
David
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Oh, golly gee whillikers. Thanks for the offer; I will indeed try again.
I am happy you successfully found a source for the Moog manual you were looking. You seem to have had some bad experiences with online manuals and e-bay. I am sorry to hear that.
I would hope that others who read your non-advertisement post aren't jaded by your negative experiences but will seek out high quality pdfs available on the internet if those meet their needs.
Wouldn't it be nice if there were an index of free service manuals on line (such as pdfs) where users could review the quality of those manuals for presentation, completeness, and accuracy?
Steve
PS: How's that? Pretty positive, don't you think? |
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dingebre
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 270
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:05 pm Post subject:
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No, not positive. Sarcastic maybe? But if that's the best you can do
David
| MusicMan11712 wrote: | | dingebre wrote: | Wow...
Just trying to share a resource others might find useful. It's not my site.
No, you didn't succeed at being positive at all. Maybe try again?
David
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Oh, golly gee whillikers. Thanks for the offer; I will indeed try again.
I am happy you successfully found a source for the Moog manual you were looking. You seem to have had some bad experiences with online manuals and e-bay. I am sorry to hear that.
I would hope that others who read your non-advertisement post aren't jaded by your negative experiences but will seek out high quality pdfs available on the internet if those meet their needs.
Wouldn't it be nice if there were an index of free service manuals on line (such as pdfs) where users could review the quality of those manuals for presentation, completeness, and accuracy?
Steve
PS: How's that? Pretty positive, don't you think? |
_________________
David M. Ingebretsen, M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Enginering, Inc.
dingebre@3dphysics.net
http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24083
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:10 pm Post subject:
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Hmm .. yes it would be nice to have both actually .. it is good to know that there is a place where one can get service manuals in their original state, and it would be good to know about PDFs too, especially when they are so so, so one could avoid those 
Besides, service manuals are copyrighted material, just like any written text, and as such the PDFs are illegal.
I do realize that it is not always possible to get an original, and that it is handy in such a case to get a copy. I also do realize that the reprints have some cost and that this may be a problem for some people ... there always has been a circuit where photocopies circulated ...
Anyways, I'm sure that both of you only mean the best, and want to be a good source of information for others .. so I do not really understand the debate and the heat of it, as both positions can be valid at the same time ...
_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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dingebre
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 270
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:55 pm Post subject:
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Thanks Blue Hell. Sorry to have let the comments descend into pointless bickering.
David
| Blue Hell wrote: | Hmm .. yes it would be nice to have both actually .. it is good to know that there is a place where one can get service manuals in their original state, and it would be good to know about PDFs too, especially when they are so so, so one could avoid those
Besides, service manuals are copyrighted material, just like any written text, and as such the PDFs are illegal.
I do realize that it is not always possible to get an original, and that it is handy in such a case to get a copy. I also do realize that the reprints have some cost and that this may be a problem for some people ... there always has been a circuit where photocopies circulated ...
Anyways, I'm sure that both of you only mean the best, and want to be a good source of information for others .. so I do not really understand the debate and the heat of it, as both positions can be valid at the same time ...
|
_________________
David M. Ingebretsen, M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Enginering, Inc.
dingebre@3dphysics.net
http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24083
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:00 pm Post subject:
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| dingebre wrote: | | pointless bickering. |
It's OK 
Or well, its not, but I do it too
_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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