electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Resource for Vintage Audio Gear Manuals
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: jksuperstar, Scott Stites, Uncle Krunkus
Page 1 of 1 [10 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
dingebre



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 261
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:13 am    Post subject: Resource for Vintage Audio Gear Manuals Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wasn't sure that this fit into a sub-forum. If so, apologies for posting it here.

I'm not affiliated with the site, just a happy customer.

http://www.stereomanuals.com/index.htm

Rick has thousands of re-printed manuals for various 70s and 80s audio gear. Great quality, fast shipping, reasonable price.

I was looking for a complete, good copy of the Moog Modular Service manual for some time now and the PDFs on the net are incomplete, poor quality, and just annoying.

Rick has the complete manual with the 11x17 inch pullout pages, great quality copy, and bound. I bought two. One to keep clean, one to pull apart to mark up as I'm building circuits.

No, I won't make copies for you Smile Support Rick's site and buy one.

David

David


2014-01-11 10.06.26.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  2.02 MB
 Viewed:  26 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

2014-01-11 10.06.26.jpg



_________________
David M. Ingebretsen, M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Enginering, Inc.

dingebre@3dphysics.net
http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MusicMan11712



Joined: Aug 08, 2009
Posts: 726
Location: Upstate New York USA
Audio files: 148

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If I recall correctly, this site is a commercial site that charges money for print outs. I am not sure if that's where I got one for like $28.00 when all I wanted was a pdf.

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find a pdf until a year or two later.

If people want a good quality printout, that's great; they can "support" this vendor if they like. For people that don't need these printouts, pdfs freely available on the internet are a perfect solution.

As for me, if the one I got was indeed from this site, I already posted a link to a site where people can get a pdf. If somewhere down the road you find a pdf of the one you ordered from this site, I hope your vendor loyalty won't dissuade you from posting the link.

Steve
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dingebre



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 261
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

MusicMan11712 wrote:
If I recall correctly, this site is a commercial site that charges money for print outs. I am not sure if that's where I got one for like $28.00 when all I wanted was a pdf.

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find a pdf until a year or two later.

If people want a good quality printout, that's great; they can "support" this vendor if they like. For people that don't need these printouts, pdfs freely available on the internet are a perfect solution.

As for me, if the one I got was indeed from this site, I already posted a link to a site where people can get a pdf. If somewhere down the road you find a pdf of the one you ordered from this site, I hope your vendor loyalty won't dissuade you from posting the link.

Steve


You're absolutely correct. I wrote they are "re-printed", with "pullout pages" and that I "bought two". I thought my post was clear, these are paper manuals you pay for. These aren't PDFs, (nor are they the ripoffs I found on ebay which are re-prints of the crappy PDFs on the net).

The problem is the only "free" PDFs of the Moog service manual I could find are incomplete, and many pages are cut off. You get what you pay for. I wanted a complete, high quality copy I could read and use.

His site is clear that he is providing a printed manual, not a PDF.

No, I won't scan the complete manual and post a "link". If you're happy with the incomplete PDF of the Moog service manual (or other poor scans), that's great. I wanted something that I could actually use.

David

_________________
David M. Ingebretsen, M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Enginering, Inc.

dingebre@3dphysics.net
http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MusicMan11712



Joined: Aug 08, 2009
Posts: 726
Location: Upstate New York USA
Audio files: 148

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, I tried to be positive, but it looks like I didn't succeed.

dingebre wrote:
These aren't PDFs, (nor are they the ripoffs I found on ebay which are re-prints of the crappy PDFs on the net).

I haven't ordered any of the overpriced originals or crappy reprints listed on e-bay. Here I would urge people to find the pdfs online themselves rather than taking the e-bay risk. Just my opinion, but one should always ask if the manual is an original, a copy of an original, or a copy of an e-document. One should also make sure there is a customer satisfaction return policy. Further, e-bayers should copy the listing in case the listing fraudulently says, "original, not a reprint" and the buyer-protection plan is needed.

dingebre wrote:
The problem is the only "free" PDFs of the Moog service manual I could find are incomplete, and many pages are cut off. You get what you pay for. I wanted a complete, high quality copy I could read and use.


I don't know about the quality of Moog service manuals on the internet. The only copies I have are from a 1969/1970 era Moog I copied from originals probably around 1971 or 1972. I have been told that those are incomplete, too--possibly because they were not accurate in the first place or because there were subsequent changes made. But, I am not an expert in Moog manuals, so I will differ to your experiences.

dingebre wrote:
No, I won't scan the complete manual and post a "link".

I think you misread what I wrote. I wasn't suggesting you scan it and make it available. To the best of my knowledge, no one here did.

dingebre wrote:
If you're happy with the incomplete PDF of the Moog service manual (or other poor scans), that's great. I wanted something that I could actually use.

Oh! I didn't realize you were only suggesting people use the service to order Moog manuals. I thought you were suggesting it as a good place for any manual people were looking for. Apologies if I misunderstood.

Seriously, though, I am not sure Stout and Associates needs any additional promotion here--it always seems to come up on internet searches for manuals I look for. I was trying to encourage others who might see your post to look for pdfs--which are often on the internet but which may be difficult to find through internet searches.

Personally, I think it would be better to have an index to pdfs that are available--sometimes you have to look on the 25th or 30th Google search page because there are so many other listings--including for commercial establishments selling manuals--regardless of whether they have the one being searched for on not.

In fact, it might be good if such an index has user reviews. "This manual is an off-centered scan of the original manual from 1985 with brief Japanese comments on about 15% of the pages." Etc.

I would think that you would favor this kind of thing. That way you could share the results of your efforts in trying to locate manuals. I don't know if you speak from experience with e-bay purchases, but if so, why not make up for it by sharing your efforts. If your specialty is Moog manuals, you could review the ones you have looked at so that others don't get an incomplete one or a crappy, off-centered copy.

By the way, Stout and Associates does indeed say they are planning to have a catalog of about 500,000 manuals in pdf form available.

Again, the free pdfs available already might be crappy or they might be good or even excellent. I happen to have some at both ends. For the most part, the crappy ones are crappy because of the way those manuals were originally prepared.

Caveat emptor!

Steve
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dingebre



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 261
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow...

Just trying to share a resource others might find useful. It's not my site.

No, you didn't succeed at being positive at all. Maybe try again?

David

MusicMan11712 wrote:
Well, I tried to be positive, but it looks like I didn't succeed.

dingebre wrote:
These aren't PDFs, (nor are they the ripoffs I found on ebay which are re-prints of the crappy PDFs on the net).

I haven't ordered any of the overpriced originals or crappy reprints listed on e-bay. Here I would urge people to find the pdfs online themselves rather than taking the e-bay risk. Just my opinion, but one should always ask if the manual is an original, a copy of an original, or a copy of an e-document. One should also make sure there is a customer satisfaction return policy. Further, e-bayers should copy the listing in case the listing fraudulently says, "original, not a reprint" and the buyer-protection plan is needed.

dingebre wrote:
The problem is the only "free" PDFs of the Moog service manual I could find are incomplete, and many pages are cut off. You get what you pay for. I wanted a complete, high quality copy I could read and use.


I don't know about the quality of Moog service manuals on the internet. The only copies I have are from a 1969/1970 era Moog I copied from originals probably around 1971 or 1972. I have been told that those are incomplete, too--possibly because they were not accurate in the first place or because there were subsequent changes made. But, I am not an expert in Moog manuals, so I will differ to your experiences.

dingebre wrote:
No, I won't scan the complete manual and post a "link".

I think you misread what I wrote. I wasn't suggesting you scan it and make it available. To the best of my knowledge, no one here did.

dingebre wrote:
If you're happy with the incomplete PDF of the Moog service manual (or other poor scans), that's great. I wanted something that I could actually use.

Oh! I didn't realize you were only suggesting people use the service to order Moog manuals. I thought you were suggesting it as a good place for any manual people were looking for. Apologies if I misunderstood.

Seriously, though, I am not sure Stout and Associates needs any additional promotion here--it always seems to come up on internet searches for manuals I look for. I was trying to encourage others who might see your post to look for pdfs--which are often on the internet but which may be difficult to find through internet searches.

Personally, I think it would be better to have an index to pdfs that are available--sometimes you have to look on the 25th or 30th Google search page because there are so many other listings--including for commercial establishments selling manuals--regardless of whether they have the one being searched for on not.

In fact, it might be good if such an index has user reviews. "This manual is an off-centered scan of the original manual from 1985 with brief Japanese comments on about 15% of the pages." Etc.

I would think that you would favor this kind of thing. That way you could share the results of your efforts in trying to locate manuals. I don't know if you speak from experience with e-bay purchases, but if so, why not make up for it by sharing your efforts. If your specialty is Moog manuals, you could review the ones you have looked at so that others don't get an incomplete one or a crappy, off-centered copy.

By the way, Stout and Associates does indeed say they are planning to have a catalog of about 500,000 manuals in pdf form available.

Again, the free pdfs available already might be crappy or they might be good or even excellent. I happen to have some at both ends. For the most part, the crappy ones are crappy because of the way those manuals were originally prepared.

Caveat emptor!

Steve

_________________
David M. Ingebretsen, M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Enginering, Inc.

dingebre@3dphysics.net
http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MusicMan11712



Joined: Aug 08, 2009
Posts: 726
Location: Upstate New York USA
Audio files: 148

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dingebre wrote:
Wow...

Just trying to share a resource others might find useful. It's not my site.

No, you didn't succeed at being positive at all. Maybe try again?

David



Oh, golly gee whillikers. Thanks for the offer; I will indeed try again.

I am happy you successfully found a source for the Moog manual you were looking. You seem to have had some bad experiences with online manuals and e-bay. I am sorry to hear that.

I would hope that others who read your non-advertisement post aren't jaded by your negative experiences but will seek out high quality pdfs available on the internet if those meet their needs.

Wouldn't it be nice if there were an index of free service manuals on line (such as pdfs) where users could review the quality of those manuals for presentation, completeness, and accuracy?

Steve

PS: How's that? Pretty positive, don't you think?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dingebre



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 261
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No, not positive. Sarcastic maybe? But if that's the best you can do Smile

David

MusicMan11712 wrote:
dingebre wrote:
Wow...

Just trying to share a resource others might find useful. It's not my site.

No, you didn't succeed at being positive at all. Maybe try again?

David



Oh, golly gee whillikers. Thanks for the offer; I will indeed try again.

I am happy you successfully found a source for the Moog manual you were looking. You seem to have had some bad experiences with online manuals and e-bay. I am sorry to hear that.

I would hope that others who read your non-advertisement post aren't jaded by your negative experiences but will seek out high quality pdfs available on the internet if those meet their needs.

Wouldn't it be nice if there were an index of free service manuals on line (such as pdfs) where users could review the quality of those manuals for presentation, completeness, and accuracy?

Steve

PS: How's that? Pretty positive, don't you think?

_________________
David M. Ingebretsen, M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Enginering, Inc.

dingebre@3dphysics.net
http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20570
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 148
G2 patch files: 318

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmm .. yes it would be nice to have both actually .. it is good to know that there is a place where one can get service manuals in their original state, and it would be good to know about PDFs too, especially when they are so so, so one could avoid those Confused

Besides, service manuals are copyrighted material, just like any written text, and as such the PDFs are illegal.

I do realize that it is not always possible to get an original, and that it is handy in such a case to get a copy. I also do realize that the reprints have some cost and that this may be a problem for some people ... there always has been a circuit where photocopies circulated ...

Anyways, I'm sure that both of you only mean the best, and want to be a good source of information for others .. so I do not really understand the debate and the heat of it, as both positions can be valid at the same time ...

Peace

_________________
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
dingebre



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 261
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Blue Hell. Sorry to have let the comments descend into pointless bickering.

David

Blue Hell wrote:
Hmm .. yes it would be nice to have both actually .. it is good to know that there is a place where one can get service manuals in their original state, and it would be good to know about PDFs too, especially when they are so so, so one could avoid those Confused

Besides, service manuals are copyrighted material, just like any written text, and as such the PDFs are illegal.

I do realize that it is not always possible to get an original, and that it is handy in such a case to get a copy. I also do realize that the reprints have some cost and that this may be a problem for some people ... there always has been a circuit where photocopies circulated ...

Anyways, I'm sure that both of you only mean the best, and want to be a good source of information for others .. so I do not really understand the debate and the heat of it, as both positions can be valid at the same time ...

Peace

_________________
David M. Ingebretsen, M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Enginering, Inc.

dingebre@3dphysics.net
http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20570
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 148
G2 patch files: 318

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dingebre wrote:
pointless bickering.


It's OK Laughing

Or well, its not, but I do it too Confused

_________________
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: jksuperstar, Scott Stites, Uncle Krunkus
Page 1 of 1 [10 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use