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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
"Crushed Glass" - Dual TUBE Oscillators
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Lofi Ninja



Joined: Oct 25, 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Jupiter

PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Back again. My ECC81 tubes went missing. I found an old, bashed tube radio today. I salvaged the tubes, and among them where two ECH81's and an EL84 aswell. Can they be used for this ? I know the ech81 are heptodes but I'm pretty sure I read something about using them as oscillators in old radios or something.
Oh and there also was an EM80 tuning indicator tube.. Do you got some cute little pre-amp I can slap that on ?

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frequencycentral



Joined: May 25, 2008
Posts: 186
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lofi Ninja wrote:
Back again. My ECC81 tubes went missing. I found an old, bashed tube radio today. I salvaged the tubes, and among them where two ECH81's and an EL84 aswell. Can they be used for this ? I know the ech81 are heptodes but I'm pretty sure I read something about using them as oscillators in old radios or something.
Oh and there also was an EM80 tuning indicator tube.. Do you got some cute little pre-amp I can slap that on ?


Nice to know this thread still lives in some peoples minds!

Hmm, dunno, never used heptodes, they sure do look weird on the data sheet though. The EL84 would make the basis of a nice little amp. As for pre amp, search my posts over at http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/forums.html?board=2.0

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marmora



Joined: Sep 06, 2009
Posts: 8
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Finished my Crushed Glass today!

Sounds great...well, it sounds great if you like noise! It's loud, it's nasty - I love it! Fans of the Atari Punk Console or similar designs will not be disappointed.
I changed the value of C4 to .1uf. I just wasn't hearing enough change with the original value. With each frequency control all the way down, the sound cuts out. Good for a quick on/off control, or so that you can hear one oscillator at a time.
I'm running it at 12v, but I tried 9v to see how it would sound and it works - the tubes just aren't coming to life the same way and the volume is lower.
This would be a great building block for a tube synth or for noise makers.

Here's the layout I used:
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/marmora/crushed+glass.jpg.html

I used an IC to show where the tube goes. Pin 1 of the IC is pin 1 of the tube etc.

Thanks Rick (frequencycentral)!
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Spotta



Joined: Apr 24, 2010
Posts: 22
Location: London UK

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi

I have just built this following marmora's stripboard diagram and although both valves are glowing I'm only getting sound on the last third of travel of P1 and P2 has no effect at all.
Are there some voltages I can take from various places that would tell me if I have a dodgy valve?

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-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 761

Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Did you get yours working spotta?

My tubes were sitting in the mailbox all day! About to start breadboarding. Will report findings here shortly. Using 6111's...
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Spotta



Joined: Apr 24, 2010
Posts: 22
Location: London UK

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yep

I unsoldered the tubes and inserted into some IC sockets and it worked fine =]

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10152019499715232

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-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 761

Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Excellent! I was giggling like a madman all the way through your video Laughing . Noisy little buggers aren't they? I just got mine fired up on breadboard and cranked it at full volume through a bass amp...at midnight! Twisted Evil I think I disturbed a few people.

There will now be a short intermission followed by another test at 1AM through a ring modulator.

I'm going to try a few changes with the frequency caps and see what happens. I think part of this things charm is that difference between the high pitched hiss and the low frequency thud. I noticed your pots work like mine do... which seems to be reverse to what I'd consider normal. Clockwise appears to lower the frequency here. I may change it around.

Overall though a fun circuit! thumb up
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Spotta



Joined: Apr 24, 2010
Posts: 22
Location: London UK

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yep, I have a few mods to make, too busy making other euro rack projects at the mo. I do intend to make a module out of it in the end Very Happy
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frequencycentral



Joined: May 25, 2008
Posts: 186
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hahaha - nice soundclip!
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Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 761

Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've been fiddling with this a bit today, changing capacitor values etc. One thing I've been unable to do with this is ring modulation.

I've tried feeding each of the two oscillators into the inputs but had no luck. Then I fed both oscillators into the one input and a carrier signal into the other. That didn't work either. I started to think there was something wrong with the ring modulator but it checks out fine with other oscillators. I'm wondering if the output is just too f****d up (for want of a better word) to work. Any one else get this working? I'm going to get hold of some germanium diodes and try a different ring modulator design but I suspect I won't have much joy.

Still, it is a great device. There is nothing quite like it for making extreme noise. Very Happy
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Draal



Joined: May 18, 2010
Posts: 305
Location: Oak Park, IL
Audio files: 5

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've been wanting to build the crushed glass for a while; hopefully I'll get some time to mess around with some 12AX7's with it. Got an old tiny chassis from a tube record player with blown power transformer sitting around.

Time will tell...

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LFLab



Joined: Dec 17, 2009
Posts: 191
Location: Rosmalen, Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Any chance on adding voltage control to these?
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frequencycentral



Joined: May 25, 2008
Posts: 186
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

LFLab wrote:
Any chance on adding voltage control to these?


You should be able to add a vacrol in the feedback loop. Or you could try installing a cathode resistor and bypass cap, then pump CV into the cathode. It's NEVER gonna be 1V/oct though!

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LFLab



Joined: Dec 17, 2009
Posts: 191
Location: Rosmalen, Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very Happy that makes sense Rick, thanks.

And since accuracy is not possible, might make sense to use two vactrols and some control circuitry to use the same voltage divider that there's in there now. Of course four are needed since there's two oscs.

Might need to order some extras of the cheapie cheapie kind (single unmatched Silonex NSL32)


Jarno.
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Taylor



Joined: Jul 13, 2006
Posts: 170
Location: us

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In my build, there is a relatively small sweet spot within each pot that really houses interesting sounds, and they are very interactive with each other. So, to me, voltage control might not make a ton of sense as you really need an intelligent agent tuning the controls to get interesting sounds.

If you've built it and want VC, please don't let me stop you. But I'd recommend breadboarding the circuit first to get a feel for it before you start modding, if you haven't already. Just my two cents. Smile

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frequencycentral



Joined: May 25, 2008
Posts: 186
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The sweet spot could be expanded to the entire range of the pots by putting a resistor in series either side.
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Taylor



Joined: Jul 13, 2006
Posts: 170
Location: us

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

frequencycentral wrote:
The sweet spot could be expanded to the entire range of the pots by putting a resistor in series either side.


Truedat, I played around with this but for some reason didn't get satisfactory results because of the interactivity. Some sounds out of one oscillator could only be had when the other's pot is out of "useful" range.

In any case, I have a lot of fun with this and I use it as the main noise source in my modular. I even brought the tubes out onto the front panel in flamboyant fashion. Pictures soon.

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slacker



Joined: Nov 18, 2007
Posts: 301
Location: England
Audio files: 11
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You could maybe add fine adjustment pots, stick say 1k to 10k pots wired as variable resistors between the bottom of the existing pots and ground. This would let you dial in roughly the sweet spot on the original pot and then use the fine pot for greater control.
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micyclebicycle



Joined: Jun 06, 2013
Posts: 4
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

woa! it's ben a while since this has been replied too!

I have a couple miniature tubes, when i read this post i was at work, I dreamed that i had a pair of 6111s. Alas, they are 6418,
http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dl/Scans-008/Scans-00175367.pdf
They appear to have half of the pins plus the heater (5). Could i build a similar circuit and get one oscillator?

I have a 12ax7, a ecc83 and some other odds and ends available too.

I have a cabinet that uses a +12v supply so i think this could be radical in it!.
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frequencycentral



Joined: May 25, 2008
Posts: 186
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

6418 are submini penthouses, so you also have the grid to deal with, which makes them good for VCAs too. They're quite microphonic IIR. But yeah, no reason why not to crush that glass.
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micyclebicycle



Joined: Jun 06, 2013
Posts: 4
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

frequencycentral wrote:
6418 are submini penthouses, so you also have the grid to deal with, which makes them good for VCAs too. They're quite microphonic IIR. But yeah, no reason why not to crush that glass.


Ha!

A Vca would actually be pretty rad, it could double as a pre-amp!

What makes the grid important for that?

Is there any simple tube VCA circuits allready out there?
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