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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » General Discussion
Audio over ethernet
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:29 pm    Post subject: Audio over ethernet Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just stumbled over this

http://www.audinate.com/forums.html?option=com_content&view=article&id=99#What%20is%20Dante?

a bit expensive .. but looks like a good idea ... is anyone here using equipment like this? any stories?

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clementshawes



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Been looking at a DIY 'Receptor' setup and stumbled on Wormhole some time back...

http://code.google.com/p/wormhole2/

Considerably cheaper option to test the water (as in, free)

Edit:::
I've just read more of the Dante product - forgive my enthusiasm to mention Wormhole, it might not be what you're after if after more than purely audio over ethernet...

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh, yes, I was interested in the ethernet sound interfaces as well - there seem to be several, DA/AD stuff, but saw mixers as well ... there are some options I saw to connect a computer, some plugin cards but there is a software only solution too (for Mac and PC).

On a dedicated ethernet it could handle lots of audio channels - seems very flexible, but it's not all clearly specified.

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audiodef



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Does it say anywhere how much it costs?
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://dev.audinate.com/kb/product_catalogue/webhelp/#product_types/product_types.htm has a nice overview of available devices.

The virtual Dante sound card currently is only about $30 BTW (per computer of course, with license hassle) - its that gear which counts up.

Too bad the white papers are not available without registration Crying or Very sad

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
The virtual Dante sound card currently is only about $30 BTW (per computer of course, with license hassle) - its that gear which counts up.

I wonder if they are going to have free software updates for life, or if they will have a new and improved version that comes out every year or every other year for a fee.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The rednet stuff from focusrite seems nice ... at least setup stuff is documented there a bit : http://global.focusrite.com/ethernet-audio-interfaces/rednet-1/downloads

Fidelity seems comparable to what RME makes for instance, routing seems flexible too .. not quite as flexible as RME .. prolly would need a matrix device for that? And some control surface then ...

Hmm .. and I would need to get new computers too ... win7 / OSX 10.7 minmal.

Anyway .. there is some more AoE and AoIP out there ... see wikipedia for instance :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_over_Ethernet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_over_IP

That Dante stuff seems to be most within range sofar .. would be nice if there would be devices with NetJack for a completely open source environment.

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Anyway .. I was thinking I could make a network setup with say 16 .. 32 analog ins and outs two or three computers and some mixer plugged into that network too to control it with - a matrix mixer of course .. cant seem to find a setup for such a thing though.

And then get rid of the current mixers and the RME thingies ...

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clementshawes



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I once thought about something alike using some old PC's (desktop and laptop) and dedicating them to specific effect and/or instrument applications - in the vein of Receptor - still might as having my Mac Mini as a dedicated Reaktor and/or Guitar Rig box, for example, still seems quite appealing.

For physical IO though, I often wondered what people do when you see studios jam-packed with racks, modules and rows of keyboards all needing to be auditioned without you running about un/plugging each requirement...

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soundwave106



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
The rednet stuff from focusrite seems nice ... at least setup stuff is documented there a bit : http://global.focusrite.com/ethernet-audio-interfaces/rednet-1/downloads
Fidelity seems comparable to what RME makes for instance, routing seems flexible too .. not quite as flexible as RME .. prolly would need a matrix device for that? And some control surface then ...


A Rednet / Dante setup at this time would also be about as expensive as an RME one, from what I am seeing... unless you hobble something together with that virtual card.

The virtual card,hmm. My instinct says it would be "limited". This is because Ethernet is not a great protocol (standard) for latency-free audio overall. But it has the advantage of having massively cheap hardware and very easy routing / splitting. So I can see why Dante was developed: to "force" Ethernet into giving one that low latency response. Most of the solutions I see (like Rednet) seem to only guarantee good performance with proprietary Ethernet cards or option cards, which probably help force Ethernet systems to do what they weren't designed to do. Most Dante equipped hardware (including Dante mixers) are higher end / commercial at this time. So I wonder how the performance of the virtual card will stack up with ordinary hardware.

At any rate, this to me has always looked like a really interesting development for places which typically have tons of analog cable going between places (eg live PA setups, studios with lots of rooms), if you can force tons of channels into one little cable that can be routed and split however you want, it makes installs and management of such a *lot* easier. If the technology is good, that is.

clementshawes wrote:
For physical IO though, I often wondered what people do when you see studios jam-packed with racks, modules and rows of keyboards all needing to be auditioned without you running about un/plugging each requirement...


One "old school way" of doing things was to make your own snakes (or have someone make em for you) from all your racks / modules / and keyboards to a patch bay, and use the patch bay to perform any routing and plugging/unplugging. (There are probably other solutions but that's one I remember using.)

For the project studio which doesn't need long runs, I wouldn't even bother replacing the old school snake setup; it's the long runs (eg separate keyboard room) where audio over Ethernet makes sense to me.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It has been a long time wish of me to have matrix mixing on a good bunch of audio channels ... devices like the Nord Modular or the Pacarana have ins and outs and can be used for audio processing ... using mixers to connect that up is not very flexible ... and I dont' know but patch bays just seem to add confusion as to where my cables go ... so i took those out again.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ended up buying a larger RME (the UFX thing) using totalmix to give me a matrix mixer effectively .. it is not ethernet of course, but at least control can be remoted, and it can be expanded a bit.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

How is the UFX?

My FF800 is rapidly going down hill and I'm thinking of getting the UFX.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm happy with it, had to tape off some LEDs tho that were too bright for me and too blue ...

Couple of things to mention that are not directly clear from the sales blah blah :

- the total mix treats some channels as special, however this can be customized.

- there are no EQaualizers and Dynamics (compression, expansion) on the application outputs, only on hardware inputs and hardware outputs. So your soft synths and wave players need to provide that, or you have to route things in a special way.

- FX are global, and not per submix .. I think .. sometimes I get FX where i do not want them .. this may be me misunderstanding things.

- I found it a bit clumsy to set up two submixes to be the same ... like have a headphones output that is the same as the main output. The manual suggests to set up a 'permanent cue' for this, and that works very well indeed but it is not too obvious from the user interface to see that it exists. Apart from that it is pretty easy and quick to copy one submix to another, so that may float your boat as well.

The manual mentions that the device should be used from a grounded mains outlet only - and they mean it! Had some grounding issues with my old Behringer mixer. I can not properly ground stuff here so had to take the mixer out.

These are minor points, its easier to use than the multiface II, it has the FX, EQ, and dynamics that I did not have before. Also from the new user interface of totalmix it is easier to set loopback channels .. although in the old version I would have metering for that on the inputss, and in this version there is metering on the outputs only .. and it is not immediately visible in the user interface.

Oh and it sounds better than ever .. maybe just because I took the Behringer out Rolling Eyes

I did not use the FX stuff too much yet, but for me it was good enough to also pull the MPX100 out of the rack .. missing the tap thingie though for delay lengths.

Oh the front panel .. seems well laid out ... did not use it that extensively .. but volume control is good enough with that big knob .. basically it cycles trough main, headphones1, headphones2 when you press it .. I ended up having it on headphones, and it will stay there .. so no need for me to select, just control headphone volume from that .. for the main out I still have a hardware control in use ... for when it fucks up ... or I .. so that my neighbors won't call the cops ...

I did not test MIDI yet and I will likely want some control surface .. when I find time I'll try some iPad app .. too bad that one has to work through the PC though (just like MIDI remote) .. an Ethernet connector on the device itself would have been great.

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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Jan,

Thanks for all the info.

When you say total mix treats some channels as "special" what do you mean?

Cheers

Andy
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It places the main and phone outputs on the right side and not in channel order. Of these only the main output needs an assignment, all others can be set to 'none' and then behave as regular channels.
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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, got you.

Thanks.
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