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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
Simple CD4046 VCO
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slacker



Joined: Nov 18, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wetterberg wrote:
slacker wrote:
I haven't had time to record anything but slaving up a second 4046 using the SF output works great, thanks for the tip. It follows the master one but it sort of slides and warbles between pitches rather than jumping cleanly from pitch to pitch, sounds really good.
I'd REALLY love to hear that - I guess it's a bit like a PLL tracking poorly?


Here you go then.
The clip starts with just the master VCO, then the second one slaved off the first via pin 10 comes in. The master then drops out so you get just the slave.


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Slaving CD4046s

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wetterberg



Joined: Jun 27, 2008
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice!
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madskill42



Joined: Jun 30, 2011
Posts: 25
Location: czech rep

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've tried this few days ago and finally I can get you some review.

My setup was following: 40106 generating clock for 4017 4 step sequencer, outputs paired via diodes to a VCO input of 4046, 10k pots to control voltage of steps. 10nf on 6-7 pins.

Well, as I tried it, it worked, but somehow there was still a signal output when no voltage was applied to VCO input. It was strange, because I noticed that there's "jump" between each step. So I pulled one connection from step to create "no output step", basically 0v and voila, there was a still output. As I went further with tweaking and trying different caps and resistors, I've managed to pull up resistor at pin 12 and suddenly, that problem was solved.

Is it normal behavior?
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nathanxl



Joined: Apr 24, 2012
Posts: 73
Location: Wa

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

slacker wrote:

I came up with a cool way of controlling 2 of the VCOs with one pot last night.
Basically you connect pin 11 of the first 4046 to the clockwise lug of a 100k - 1M pot and connect pin 11 of the second 4046 to the anticlockwise lug. Then connect the wiper to ground through a 10k resistor.
If you stick the pot in the middle and feed both VCOs the same CV, then within the tolerances of all the parts they play the same tune. If you move the pot towards either extreme the base frequency of one of the VCOs goes up and the other goes down so you get harmonies, ringmod the 2 together and all manner of madness ensues Twisted Evil


I just tried this through a slewed 4bit R/2R... FANTASTIC. There is an audable difference of the gliding effect on the two VCOs when the the cojoined pot is turned to either extreme. The higher freq. tends to hog the slew. I love this.
Now I just have to work out a way to switch the caps via a gate input... Always learning. Thanks for this.
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nathanxl



Joined: Apr 24, 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is my attempt at Slackers 4046 VCO mod.
All info on the youtube page.

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JingleJoe



Joined: Nov 10, 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd like to take this opportunity to say; that's fucking brilliant Shocked
Would I be correct in assuming the nice "weeep-bumv" sound is from LDR controlled oscillators and LEDs?

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nathanxl



Joined: Apr 24, 2012
Posts: 73
Location: Wa

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cheers JJ.
The only Oscillators going to the amp in this vid are the 4x 4046 VCOs on the breadboard there. The "weeep-bumv" modulation is from the slewed 4bit R/2R.

This was a test to see how the VCOs handle the Blue Missile Cluster DAC Im fiddlin with at the end

Im yet to experiment with the LDR/LED Osc' in the mix. Am currently looking at building a VC or gated mixer or a VCA.

Im so happy with this VCO hack of Slackers. Really nice harmonies are possible when the pot is set at 10:30 or 1:30, with just the right amount of slew its almost vocal at times.
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Draal



Joined: May 18, 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Awesome set up Cool . Yes, every lunetta would be enhanced with a 4046 in it; whether it be pitch tracking as in mine or as you have shown as a vco. A rewarding chip to say the least.

Thanks for the inspiring clips of your work. salut

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tjookum



Joined: May 25, 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nice one!

Have you ever seen the work of the man stanley lunetta himself?
http://moosack.net/stang/sculptures.html

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nathanxl



Joined: Apr 24, 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think subliminally I must have taken his work in at some stage in the past. Similarities are in the interest of having a performance/installation selfplaying sculpture. Thanks. I need more VCOs, specifically VCLFOs to make sequenced loops of one week or more. 4046 VCLFO possible?
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Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
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Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Slacker, I would like to use your VCO circuit in my emSynth product line, with your permission of course. In the event that the circuit sells well I would like to offer you a (very) small royalty for providing the design. If you were to characterize the circuit, providing RC plots and other data then the royalty could (slightly) increase. Just let me know what your thoughts are on this, thanks.

Les

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Last edited by Inventor on Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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tjookum



Joined: May 25, 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

@nathanxl: easy, just use a huge(100-1000uF) cap or a divider like the 4040.
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nathanxl



Joined: Apr 24, 2012
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Location: Wa

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is a handdrawn schematic of my first VCO. Based on Slackers dual 4046/single pot mod.
Excuse the unconventional way of laying it out as it is also the first time I have drawn a schematic...
Some of the circuit design may be a little weird but it works just fine. I have spent 2weeks plugging away at the breadboard, basically trying ANYTHING at all to see what works. It was fun and I think I have made something that is very playable.
It has a gated Hi/Lo cap switching feature using a single 4066. It works great and creates some real interesting rhythm, even better is, without a gate input the 3way cap switch still works. They can be used together aswell and with a slewed CV input all manor of goodness ensues.
I will make a short video of it tomorrow and post up here if there is interest to see it in action.


4046VCO with Gate switching Caps.jpg
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Draal



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I wanted a simple vco for my Mastodon Lunetta and slacker's design fits the bill. I'm sure you all know how much I enjoy using the 4046 so I tend to have a number of these little buggers.

The things I did differently than Slacker (his design works very well BTW, I'm just describing what worked for me).

1. Since this vco is patchable to other things other than just an r/2r, pin 9 needed a pull down resistor to work properly. Without it, I was getting cool noises but was quite erratic in action. Sometimes ya got the weird noises, other times, nothin'. If you touch the pin you could "activate' the vco in a way, so a momentary push button switch that punches the pin to ground could be fun. For me I kept it as a standard, reliable vco by tying that pin to ground with a 50k resistor.

2. Pin 12 broke off my 4046 (hazards of dead bug approach Rolling Eyes ) so that has no resistor on it. It doesn't in the pitch tracker and still functions, so if ya don't have a 4.7M resistor, don't sweat it. However if you want a very specific range of audio freq's, pin 12 becomes very useful.

3. Instead of a 10n capacitor between pins 6 and 7, I used a 100n or 0.1uF cap. Play with this value to tweak your freq. Smile

4. Tied pin 14 to V+. You can of course use this as another input for more fun but I wanted to keep this module as simple as possible.

While experimenting with this layout I had some funny moments of picking up radio stations and being able to modulate them depending on the patch going into the r/2r. Hmmm, mistake or unique option Laughing !

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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm having some fun with the 4046 at the moment myself Very Happy I really like how clean it sounds in the high frequency range.

I don't have a pulldown on pin 9, but I do have it hooked up to the output of an opamp, with a 500K series pot and 1uF
cap to ground for a glide effect. I guess you would normally need the pulldown resistor when you're not connecting
anything else to it.

From the datasheet I understood that pin 12 can be left floating, what a resistor does is add an offset to the frequency.
(smaller makes it higher) So no real need for a 4M7 resistor.

I''m currently using a 22nF cap between pins 6/7 which gives a nice range of frequencies, all audible. I also have a 500K pot
from pin 11 to GND.

Instead of connecting pin 5 directly to GND I use a pulldown resistor, and by making that pin high the VCO turns off.

I don't want to make it too complex either (ahum,..) but just did a test using it as a tracker with the 4017/4051
melody generator between pins 3/4 like jcintheus did, and that IS fun.

Draal wrote:
While experimenting with this layout I had some funny moments of picking up radio stations and being able to modulate them depending on the patch going into the r/2r. Hmmm, mistake or unique option Laughing !

Shocked that's a great option!

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jcintheus



Joined: Oct 16, 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Using a 4089 on pins 3&4 is another source of good fun. The result is kind of a "harmonic content shifter".
Or, use any number of 4046's with different divider/capacitor setups,
and the same/similar CV's for "harmonic compositions".
In series or parallel! VCO or Pitch Tracker!
And keep on going!
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-minus-



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

madskill42 wrote:
I've tried this few days ago and finally I can get you some review.

My setup was following: 40106 generating clock for 4017 4 step sequencer, outputs paired via diodes to a VCO input of 4046, 10k pots to control voltage of steps. 10nf on 6-7 pins.

Well, as I tried it, it worked, but somehow there was still a signal output when no voltage was applied to VCO input. It was strange, because I noticed that there's "jump" between each step. So I pulled one connection from step to create "no output step", basically 0v and voila, there was a still output. As I went further with tweaking and trying different caps and resistors, I've managed to pull up resistor at pin 12 and suddenly, that problem was solved.

Is it normal behavior?



I've been having the same issues. I don't want sound from the VCO when there is no CV on pin 9. I have a pulldown resistor on pin 9 and still get oscillation when no control voltage is present. I've pulled up the 4M7 at pin 12 and it has helped. I'm getting noticeable thumping though when I feed a R-2R into the CV and have the pot dialed into the high frequencies.

Has anyone else had this happening. Or is it just something to do with the nature of the circuit or IC?
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-minus-



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Don't worry Lunettists! I think I've figured it out. Pull up pin 12 4M7R, pull down pin 9 100K (unwritten standard). The thumping was probably me cranking the pot to ultra high frequencies and the voltage on/off on the ladder thumping. Seems to be ok now... "who gives a f*** as long as it makes cool noises" right Wink ? (another unwriiten standard)
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billsship



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Old thread, but still extremely useful.
I've built a version of the dual sync'd 4046 VCOs, and its awesome. However, when controlling the pitch of the 4046 from a simple 40106 LFO through a 500k attenuator, I get a little bleed through. Even when the attenuator pot is turned 100% to the left, the VCO pitch warbles just a tiny bit. What's the problem?
On the attenuator, I've got the 40106 out going to the 3rd lug, and the wiper is connected to pin 9 (CV in) of both 4046s. Should the 1st lug be sent to GND?

I'm loving these chips! Very Happy
Quick note to anyone building these - I'm using a .0047uF cap (4700pF) cap between pins 6 and 7. With this value I'm finding no need for a range switch and another value of capacitor. I'm also using a 100k pot as the MIX between the two 4046s, and nothing connected to pin 12. As for overall coarse tuning, I'm using a voltage divider 10k pot between +9v and GND, with I think a 10k resistor between the 1st lug and GND.

I plan on posting a schematic when I get all the details and values hammered out.

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wackelpeter



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've breadbor(d)ed 2 of These Little mosters too and i'm left fascinated with noodling on thme around for a couple of hours...


i use a slightly modified Version of slackers schematic...

the best frequency tracking i got is with 560k between pin 11 and ground and 2,2n + 1n cap (3,2n) between 6&7

i also included the glide section and another Input on pin 3 for "syncing" that with another oscillator... therefore i must Switch pin 5 from ground to pin2...
with an 10k resistor between 3 and ground it's no matter then if a Signal is at pin 3 or not otherwise you would have strange noises... so there cut put a button inbetween to enable the sync Input or you could the jack in and out if you're fast enough or clock it via an 4066 Switch or so...

@billsship maybe you Need an pulldown resistor to pin 9 too that when no
cv is inserted at pin 9 the chip doesn't "selfoscillate" ...maybe something above 100k...

following is a small Sound sample of that "syncing Thing" 2 4046 are fed by 2 different cv's from sequencer and each with a different Input at pin 3... at the end i'm switching one or both of them on and off... just a bit of delay is used... and to be honest i think it most times sounded more beautiful without any effects...

btw. glide function is nearly unnecessary when using pin3 tried an attentuator to between Signal and pin 3 but the Logic only knows high or low...


4046_0.mp3
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2x4046 vco with sync Input on pin3

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Dogenigt



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dammit that sounds awesome! Like a horror theme for an 8-bit game Shocked
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wackelpeter



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey hey i feel a little bit underrated as it's at least 16Bit for sure... Smile Razz

guess i will throw my previous design out of the window literally and make it a bit simpler as i found out now what suits best for me...

have it now running at 9v instead of 5 and a 100nf cap with an 100k pot from gnd to pin11 this paralleled with an 200k pot and a 5k6 resistor 10k from pin 9 to 9v a 180k pot from 3 to gnd... already the Switch which sets 5 to either gnd or pin2 for this syncing Thing what sometimes sounds a bit like a ringmod... and at least my cv going to pin9 via an 470ohm resistor...

Last edited by wackelpeter on Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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wackelpeter



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

so here is a slightly better audio tune from 2 4046VCO's build after Slackers initial schematic with some simple modifications...

one VCO controlled by sequencer CV thus triggered via cr78... switching that sync thing on and off (555er square wave)
the other VCO played with cv out from ms20 keyboard and at then some glide added...

the theme is called 4046BossaNova for lonely evenings.. if you don't know what those "lonely evenings" are, then play that to your beloved ones and after they leave you alone with that crappy song, you'll know what it means... Very Happy


4046BossaNova_0.mp3
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L´Andratté



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Crappiness at it´s best.

Makes me wanna shoot down some alien pixelships.
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