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aMUSEd
Joined: Jun 08, 2005 Posts: 34 Location: UK
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dorremifasol
Joined: Sep 28, 2006 Posts: 814 Location: Barcelona, Spain
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Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:38 am Post subject:
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Looks interesting, though it seems that the DSP power is rather low compared to the G2. _________________ Cheers,
Albert |
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BobTheDog
Joined: Feb 28, 2005 Posts: 4044 Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:17 pm Post subject:
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dorremifasol wrote: | Looks interesting, though it seems that the DSP power is rather low compared to the G2. |
I'm not sure about that, the M4 uses a Harvard architecture, has a single cycle MAC and a full set of DSP instructions. It also supports some limited simd.
A G2 has 4/8 56Ks running at I guess 33Mhz (132/264mhz) while that M4 is running at 168Mhz
So I guess it has more power than an unexpanded G2 and being a newer chip design might perform near an expanded one.
One thing though is that Clavia seem to have some pretty performant code running on those 56ks, I wonder if the developer of Axoliti is as good? |
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dorremifasol
Joined: Sep 28, 2006 Posts: 814 Location: Barcelona, Spain
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 49
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:29 pm Post subject:
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Actually the DSPs on the G2 are running at 150mhz, each one! It was a quite powerful machine for the time. _________________ Cheers,
Albert |
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Moogulator
Joined: Oct 12, 2004 Posts: 29 Location: nord mars modular
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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:33 am Post subject:
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this time it's all open source - so you could be a dev yourself.
and it's 75€ to get one of those - so might be reasonable compared to a G2 which won't get a successor nor will it ever get to use samples - Axoloti does. _________________ yours MoogulatoR
www.moogulator.com / www.sequencer.de
synthesizers - electro music |
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BobTheDog
Joined: Feb 28, 2005 Posts: 4044 Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15
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Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:30 pm Post subject:
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dorremifasol wrote: | Actually the DSPs on the G2 are running at 150mhz, each one! It was a quite powerful machine for the time. |
I thought it used 56000s which have a max speed of 33, what does it use then? |
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varice
Joined: Dec 29, 2004 Posts: 961 Location: Northeastern shore of Toledo Bend
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G2 patch files: 54
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Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:46 pm Post subject:
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BobTheDog wrote: | dorremifasol wrote: | Actually the DSPs on the G2 are running at 150mhz, each one! It was a quite powerful machine for the time. |
I thought it used 56000s which have a max speed of 33, what does it use then? |
The DSP chips used in my G2X are a Motorola chip part number DSPB56367PV150, which is designed to run at 150Mhz. _________________ varice |
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BobTheDog
Joined: Feb 28, 2005 Posts: 4044 Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15
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Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:47 am Post subject:
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varice wrote: | BobTheDog wrote: | dorremifasol wrote: | Actually the DSPs on the G2 are running at 150mhz, each one! It was a quite powerful machine for the time. |
I thought it used 56000s which have a max speed of 33, what does it use then? |
The DSP chips used in my G2X are a Motorola chip part number DSPB56367PV150, which is designed to run at 150Mhz. |
And there was me thinking how clever the Clavia guys were to squeeze to much out of some 56000s and all the time there was 5 times more grunt than I realised! |
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the19thbear
Joined: Apr 19, 2007 Posts: 150 Location: denmark
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:34 am Post subject:
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I would love to add more analog controls to the axoloti core. It has a maximum of 16, and i need, say.... 32 or something.
I asked th ecreator about this and got this as a reply:
"There will not be enough on-board analog inputs for 32 pots. However it is possible to add one or multiple adc convertors over spi or i2c.
I have not connected an extra adc, but made some other extensions over spi and i2c."
-I have no idea what that is, so im not doing that;
"Or an analog multiplexer could also be a solution.
That way you're not bound to midi resolution and speed."
I am not really familiar with multiplexers as well (yes im a noob), but remember that demultiplexers/multiplexers where in my jupiter 4, for reading/sending values to/from the CPU in the J4.
How does a multiplexer really work, and is it hard implementing it, to get up to 32 inputs?
THANKS!!! |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24079 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:50 am Post subject:
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A multiplexer really is just an automated switch.
When you have two controls and only one analog input on your controller you can make your software so that it looks at one control for a while, and then at the other for a while.
When this switching is done fast enough, and when the processor keeps track of which control it is currently reading you can have both controls work.
When the control is a potentiometer the switching does not have to be very fast, like 50 or maybe 100 times / s maybe.
Edit: looking at the specs of the thing it looks like the firmware would not have to be modified for the controller to implement multiplexing. But you would have to solder a bit (look at CD4051, 4052, 4053 chips for instance to get some ideas), and would have to use some modules in your patch to control things.
When you want to be sure about this please ask the designer though, I spent only like 10 minutes on this and have no intention myself to do something alike. _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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the19thbear
Joined: Apr 19, 2007 Posts: 150 Location: denmark
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:23 am Post subject:
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Makes sense. Seems i can just take any of the arduino add on circuits that use a multiplexer for doing exactly the same thing, and just use it here. The tricky part is to let the software part do what the arduino is doing... is it complicated, the whole scanning thing?
Thanks again:) |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24079 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:57 pm Post subject:
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You would need some multiplexing hardware, then go into the box, and then demultiplex there in software. Multiplexing serializes your data for some time you get channel 1, then for a while channel 2, and maybe more channels.
You will need some outputs to control that of course, 2log N control lines for N channels, that is the math where the efficiency comes from ... so for a 4 to 1 multiplexer you need two control lines, and then one data line to get the the multiplexed signal in .. so in total you then have used 3 lines instead of 4 for the unmultiplexed situation, the higher N gets the more lines you will save. The control lines really are just a binary counter.
Your data will come in then in time slots, so internally you will have to unpack that. As your software (which may just be a patch, hopefully) controls the multiplexing it will know at every time what analog channel is currently active on your input.
That information is then used to demultiplex the signal in software, the demultiplexer is just a switch as well, but instead of a many to one it is a one to many. The same information as was used for multiplexing, that binary counter thing, is used for the demultiplexing switches.
At that stage I am a bit uncertain ... I'd need to know details about what module types are implemented .. when a demultiplexer is present it would be easy to just use that, but here the designer of the system, or the documentation of the system, would be needed to fill in the details.
Another aspect would be how to implement the binary counter needed, and how to output it's output lines to the external multiplexer.
And there I can not guide you any further really without reading manuals .. but I hope the general ideas will be enough to get you going. _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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ejr27233
Joined: Feb 08, 2010 Posts: 52 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:04 am Post subject:
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I've got a design for a SPI based 'knob box'. 2 chips and 80 knobs/switches so it will be very cheap to make on stripboard. I asked Mr Axoloti and he says I'd need to write the SPI controller as a 'module'. This might be a problem as I dont do 'C' but as there are SPI elements written already I may be able to edit something. |
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the19thbear
Joined: Apr 19, 2007 Posts: 150 Location: denmark
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Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:33 am Post subject:
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Do it! Would love to make a polysynth containing samples, and then remodel the rest of the deal with the different vcf/adsr/lfo modules. I just dont want any menues etc, so i need lots of knobs:)
Thanks! |
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the19thbear
Joined: Apr 19, 2007 Posts: 150 Location: denmark
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Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:35 pm Post subject:
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So there is a new raspberry pi coming. Said to come with win 10. That thing will have LOTS more processing power. I have never used one. Can you run reaktor etc on it?
I guess my only problem so far with the axoloti is that it seems very underpowered. Don't know how good sounding stuff you can get going on it. |
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sneakthief
Joined: Jul 24, 2006 Posts: 569 Location: Berlin
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:38 am Post subject:
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My guess:
Good luck expecting x86 Windows software to be compatible with an ARM implementation of Windows - think Windows RT. _________________ Sneak-Thief - raw electrofunk |
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the19thbear
Joined: Apr 19, 2007 Posts: 150 Location: denmark
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:42 am Post subject:
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Makes sense:) |
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sneakthief
Joined: Jul 24, 2006 Posts: 569 Location: Berlin
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:47 am Post subject:
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Underpowered compared to what? Some interesting synths run on the 168mhz STM32F4, like PreenFM2, Sonic Potions LXR.
If you want more power at the cost of OS overhead, then just run Linux on a Pi 2. _________________ Sneak-Thief - raw electrofunk |
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the19thbear
Joined: Apr 19, 2007 Posts: 150 Location: denmark
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Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:25 am Post subject:
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Anyone got one? Impressions?
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jksuperstar
Joined: Aug 20, 2004 Posts: 2503 Location: Denver
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G2 patch files: 18
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Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:48 pm Post subject:
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I have a raspberry pi2 .. for $35 its pretty cool
The ARM isn't super stellar at DSP code (where you typically need SIMD/Single Instruction Multiple Data instructions that directly address an SRAM bank)...ie - lots of cycles are wasted manually moving data around for every cycle that you want to actually be doing calculations.
Also...using Linux...I've seen Real Time audio tweaked (pretty heavily) on the original raspberry pi, down to ~10ms (for each input, then output) using USB audio. Regardless of core speed for calculations, 20ms is definitely audible when playing guitar, for example.
All that said, 1GHz @ 4cores is a decent amount of power. How likely it is that one can *use* that power effectively isn't guaranteed. |
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XCenter
Joined: Oct 01, 2005 Posts: 113 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:52 am Post subject:
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the19thbear wrote: | Anyone got one? Impressions?
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Delivery is scheduled for May. _________________ --
How may I be of disservice?
---
Music for conscious listening @ http://www.fmdelight.de/ |
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sneakthief
Joined: Jul 24, 2006 Posts: 569 Location: Berlin
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JLS
Joined: Nov 05, 2005 Posts: 490 Location: Czech
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wheely
Joined: Sep 21, 2010 Posts: 93 Location: scotland
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Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:46 am Post subject:
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This looks ace! Will it be able to sound like the G2 tho? Nothing really sounds like the G2 imo. The live input dsp looks great. |
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jaffasplaffa
Joined: Sep 21, 2010 Posts: 23 Location: denmark
G2 patch files: 2
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Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:53 pm Post subject:
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I pre-ordered 2 Axoloti synths. Cant wait for it to arrive. Axoloti developer said he would start shipping by the end of May.
Latest news is that Axolotis DRAM is expanded from 256kb to 8MB! That is 85 seconds of delay/sampling at 16bit/48kHz. Nice
Wheely: you are right, not many synth sounds like G2. I think that the fact that it has 96khz engine plays a role. I dont think many other synth has got 96 khz engine.
You can use 96khz with Axoloti too(just have to program it yourself). I asked the developer if it would be possible to link more Axoloties for more processing power when running 96khz, but it will not be available in the first batch that will be released by the end of May. It would probably be included in future versions. |
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