electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Axoloti - a modern take on the Nord Modular?
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Nord Modular Editors
Page 1 of 2 [26 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Author Message
aMUSEd



Joined: Jun 08, 2005
Posts: 34
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:41 am    Post subject: Axoloti - a modern take on the Nord Modular? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This looks interesting and very G2 like:

http://axoloti.be

even down to the 8 variant states

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

_________________
http://fingermarks.co.uk/music.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dorremifasol



Joined: Sep 28, 2006
Posts: 814
Location: Barcelona, Spain
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 49

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Looks interesting, though it seems that the DSP power is rather low compared to the G2.
_________________
Cheers,
Albert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 4044
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dorremifasol wrote:
Looks interesting, though it seems that the DSP power is rather low compared to the G2.


I'm not sure about that, the M4 uses a Harvard architecture, has a single cycle MAC and a full set of DSP instructions. It also supports some limited simd.

A G2 has 4/8 56Ks running at I guess 33Mhz (132/264mhz) while that M4 is running at 168Mhz

So I guess it has more power than an unexpanded G2 and being a newer chip design might perform near an expanded one.

One thing though is that Clavia seem to have some pretty performant code running on those 56ks, I wonder if the developer of Axoliti is as good?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dorremifasol



Joined: Sep 28, 2006
Posts: 814
Location: Barcelona, Spain
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 49

PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Actually the DSPs on the G2 are running at 150mhz, each one! It was a quite powerful machine for the time.
_________________
Cheers,
Albert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Moogulator



Joined: Oct 12, 2004
Posts: 29
Location: nord mars modular

PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

this time it's all open source - so you could be a dev yourself.
and it's 75€ to get one of those - so might be reasonable compared to a G2 which won't get a successor nor will it ever get to use samples - Axoloti does.

_________________
yours MoogulatoR

www.moogulator.com / www.sequencer.de
synthesizers - electro music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 4044
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dorremifasol wrote:
Actually the DSPs on the G2 are running at 150mhz, each one! It was a quite powerful machine for the time.


I thought it used 56000s which have a max speed of 33, what does it use then?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
varice



Joined: Dec 29, 2004
Posts: 961
Location: Northeastern shore of Toledo Bend
Audio files: 29
G2 patch files: 54

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BobTheDog wrote:
dorremifasol wrote:
Actually the DSPs on the G2 are running at 150mhz, each one! It was a quite powerful machine for the time.


I thought it used 56000s which have a max speed of 33, what does it use then?

The DSP chips used in my G2X are a Motorola chip part number DSPB56367PV150, which is designed to run at 150Mhz.

_________________
varice
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 4044
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

varice wrote:
BobTheDog wrote:
dorremifasol wrote:
Actually the DSPs on the G2 are running at 150mhz, each one! It was a quite powerful machine for the time.


I thought it used 56000s which have a max speed of 33, what does it use then?

The DSP chips used in my G2X are a Motorola chip part number DSPB56367PV150, which is designed to run at 150Mhz.


And there was me thinking how clever the Clavia guys were to squeeze to much out of some 56000s and all the time there was 5 times more grunt than I realised!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
the19thbear



Joined: Apr 19, 2007
Posts: 150
Location: denmark

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would love to add more analog controls to the axoloti core. It has a maximum of 16, and i need, say.... 32 or something.

I asked th ecreator about this and got this as a reply:

"There will not be enough on-board analog inputs for 32 pots. However it is possible to add one or multiple adc convertors over spi or i2c.
I have not connected an extra adc, but made some other extensions over spi and i2c."

-I have no idea what that is, so im not doing that;

"Or an analog multiplexer could also be a solution.
That way you're not bound to midi resolution and speed."

I am not really familiar with multiplexers as well (yes im a noob), but remember that demultiplexers/multiplexers where in my jupiter 4, for reading/sending values to/from the CPU in the J4.

How does a multiplexer really work, and is it hard implementing it, to get up to 32 inputs?

THANKS!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blue hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24079
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A multiplexer really is just an automated switch.

When you have two controls and only one analog input on your controller you can make your software so that it looks at one control for a while, and then at the other for a while.

When this switching is done fast enough, and when the processor keeps track of which control it is currently reading you can have both controls work.

When the control is a potentiometer the switching does not have to be very fast, like 50 or maybe 100 times / s maybe.

Edit: looking at the specs of the thing it looks like the firmware would not have to be modified for the controller to implement multiplexing. But you would have to solder a bit (look at CD4051, 4052, 4053 chips for instance to get some ideas), and would have to use some modules in your patch to control things.

When you want to be sure about this please ask the designer though, I spent only like 10 minutes on this and have no intention myself to do something alike.

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
the19thbear



Joined: Apr 19, 2007
Posts: 150
Location: denmark

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Makes sense. Seems i can just take any of the arduino add on circuits that use a multiplexer for doing exactly the same thing, and just use it here. The tricky part is to let the software part do what the arduino is doing... is it complicated, the whole scanning thing?

Thanks again:)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blue hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24079
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You would need some multiplexing hardware, then go into the box, and then demultiplex there in software. Multiplexing serializes your data for some time you get channel 1, then for a while channel 2, and maybe more channels.

You will need some outputs to control that of course, 2log N control lines for N channels, that is the math where the efficiency comes from ... so for a 4 to 1 multiplexer you need two control lines, and then one data line to get the the multiplexed signal in .. so in total you then have used 3 lines instead of 4 for the unmultiplexed situation, the higher N gets the more lines you will save. The control lines really are just a binary counter.

Your data will come in then in time slots, so internally you will have to unpack that. As your software (which may just be a patch, hopefully) controls the multiplexing it will know at every time what analog channel is currently active on your input.

That information is then used to demultiplex the signal in software, the demultiplexer is just a switch as well, but instead of a many to one it is a one to many. The same information as was used for multiplexing, that binary counter thing, is used for the demultiplexing switches.

At that stage I am a bit uncertain ... I'd need to know details about what module types are implemented .. when a demultiplexer is present it would be easy to just use that, but here the designer of the system, or the documentation of the system, would be needed to fill in the details.

Another aspect would be how to implement the binary counter needed, and how to output it's output lines to the external multiplexer.

And there I can not guide you any further really without reading manuals .. but I hope the general ideas will be enough to get you going.

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
ejr27233



Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 52
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've got a design for a SPI based 'knob box'. 2 chips and 80 knobs/switches so it will be very cheap to make on stripboard. I asked Mr Axoloti and he says I'd need to write the SPI controller as a 'module'. This might be a problem as I dont do 'C' but as there are SPI elements written already I may be able to edit something.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
the19thbear



Joined: Apr 19, 2007
Posts: 150
Location: denmark

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Do it! Would love to make a polysynth containing samples, and then remodel the rest of the deal with the different vcf/adsr/lfo modules. I just dont want any menues etc, so i need lots of knobs:)

Thanks!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
the19thbear



Joined: Apr 19, 2007
Posts: 150
Location: denmark

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So there is a new raspberry pi coming. Said to come with win 10. That thing will have LOTS more processing power. I have never used one. Can you run reaktor etc on it?
I guess my only problem so far with the axoloti is that it seems very underpowered. Don't know how good sounding stuff you can get going on it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sneakthief



Joined: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 569
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My guess:

Good luck expecting x86 Windows software to be compatible with an ARM implementation of Windows - think Windows RT.

_________________
Sneak-Thief - raw electrofunk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
the19thbear



Joined: Apr 19, 2007
Posts: 150
Location: denmark

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Makes sense:)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sneakthief



Joined: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 569
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Underpowered compared to what? Some interesting synths run on the 168mhz STM32F4, like PreenFM2, Sonic Potions LXR.

If you want more power at the cost of OS overhead, then just run Linux on a Pi 2.

_________________
Sneak-Thief - raw electrofunk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
the19thbear



Joined: Apr 19, 2007
Posts: 150
Location: denmark

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Anyone got one? Impressions?
Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jksuperstar



Joined: Aug 20, 2004
Posts: 2503
Location: Denver
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 18

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have a raspberry pi2 .. for $35 its pretty cool Smile

The ARM isn't super stellar at DSP code (where you typically need SIMD/Single Instruction Multiple Data instructions that directly address an SRAM bank)...ie - lots of cycles are wasted manually moving data around for every cycle that you want to actually be doing calculations.

Also...using Linux...I've seen Real Time audio tweaked (pretty heavily) on the original raspberry pi, down to ~10ms (for each input, then output) using USB audio. Regardless of core speed for calculations, 20ms is definitely audible when playing guitar, for example.

All that said, 1GHz @ 4cores is a decent amount of power. How likely it is that one can *use* that power effectively isn't guaranteed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
XCenter



Joined: Oct 01, 2005
Posts: 113
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the19thbear wrote:
Anyone got one? Impressions?
Smile


Delivery is scheduled for May.

_________________
--
How may I be of disservice?
---
Music for conscious listening @ http://www.fmdelight.de/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
sneakthief



Joined: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 569
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Anyone wanting to experiment can also compile this for the STM32F4 Discovery like so:

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/JohannesTaelman/axoloti/master/doc/for%20stm32f4discovery.html

Compiling info:

https://github.com/JohannesTaelman/axoloti/blob/master/doc/compiling%20from%20source%20on%20osx.html

https://github.com/JohannesTaelman/axoloti/blob/master/doc/compiling%20from%20source%20on%20windows.html

Notes: You lose audio in and SD card (meaning you can only save one preset on board).

MIDI I/O gpio pins are documented at the end of this file:

https://github.com/JohannesTaelman/axoloti/blob/master/firmware/midi.c

_________________
Sneak-Thief - raw electrofunk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
JLS



Joined: Nov 05, 2005
Posts: 490
Location: Czech
Audio files: 30
G2 patch files: 316

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi sneakthief

Exist compiled version editor for WIN and Discovery firmware ?

Many thanks help

Kamil

_________________
Sorry my bad English Smile
https://soundcloud.com/1jls
https://soundcloud.com/user-819966312-266044932
https://github.com/jlswbs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
wheely



Joined: Sep 21, 2010
Posts: 93
Location: scotland
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This looks ace! Will it be able to sound like the G2 tho? Nothing really sounds like the G2 imo. The live input dsp looks great.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jaffasplaffa



Joined: Sep 21, 2010
Posts: 23
Location: denmark
G2 patch files: 2

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:53 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I pre-ordered 2 Axoloti synths. Cant wait for it to arrive. Axoloti developer said he would start shipping by the end of May.

Latest news is that Axolotis DRAM is expanded from 256kb to 8MB! That is 85 seconds of delay/sampling at 16bit/48kHz. Nice Smile


Wheely: you are right, not many synth sounds like G2. I think that the fact that it has 96khz engine plays a role. I dont think many other synth has got 96 khz engine.

You can use 96khz with Axoloti too(just have to program it yourself). I asked the developer if it would be possible to link more Axoloties for more processing power when running 96khz, but it will not be available in the first batch that will be released by the end of May. It would probably be included in future versions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Nord Modular Editors
Page 1 of 2 [26 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use