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totalreality
Joined: Jul 02, 2012 Posts: 4 Location: brooklyn, ny
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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:15 pm Post subject:
Roland JX-3P Panel Board Issue Could Use Some Help Subject description: Panel Board is Malfunctioning Voltage Issue |
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Hi
i am a skilled DIY synth Builder but am not a certified repairman and am having difficulty fixing this synth.
There are 3 voltage going to the panelboard, -15, +15, and +5, for some reason the +5 is reading -5. What could cause this? The panelboard is not powering on although the LFO trig on the far left lights up when pressed. Also The PSU Tranformer is humming loudly.
Any Suggestions Would be greatly appreciated
Thanks |
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DES
Joined: Feb 28, 2003 Posts: 794 Location: New Jersey
Audio files: 8
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:47 am Post subject:
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First thing I would do is check the multimeter and make sure the settings and leads are correct (this has happened to me before, lol).
Have you traced the 5v back to the power supply? Check it there and make sure the 5v (digital) ground is good from the p/s to the front panel. Some gear will use a seperate ground for audio and for digital voltages. Back in the day this was done to keep digital noise out of the audio. _________________ Dave
www.davesneed.com |
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grantb3
Joined: Jul 31, 2009 Posts: 29 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:16 pm Post subject:
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Almost every single JX3P panel repair I have done has been to fix cracks in the traces on the board. Inspect the board closely and jumper any cracked traces with wires. |
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buildafriend
Joined: Jan 30, 2011 Posts: 47 Location: New Jersey, US
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:18 pm Post subject:
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Thanks very much, will do. (PS I am working with the original poster on this repair )
Last edited by buildafriend on Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:25 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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buildafriend
Joined: Jan 30, 2011 Posts: 47 Location: New Jersey, US
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:23 pm Post subject:
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I did measure from the PSU ground.. that could explain things.
the +5V rail for the control board was putting out something around 3.75V which i think should be sufficient..
I want to recap the whole thing but i don't know if its really worth it. I could probably find a junker and just steal the control board but my first priority is saving money. |
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grantb3
Joined: Jul 31, 2009 Posts: 29 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:31 pm Post subject:
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Recapping is a total waste of time.
Measure the power supply voltage at the power supply. Unplug the circuit boards from the power if all the rails don't come up.
If the power supply is OK by itself:
Measure continuity from each supply voltage to the extremes of the panel board (with the AC unplugged). +3.75v is useless. It needs to be +5v +/-10%, maybe even 5%. Same with the +-15v or whatever it has. Download the schematic and PCB layout. |
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DES
Joined: Feb 28, 2003 Posts: 794 Location: New Jersey
Audio files: 8
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:37 pm Post subject:
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Agreed. 3.75 for digital circuits is in the grey area of operation. i.e. it might be a "1" or it might be a "0" depending on the circuit using it. Best make sure the 5v is just that. It might be a bad 5v decoupling filter cap on one of the boards. _________________ Dave
www.davesneed.com |
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buildafriend
Joined: Jan 30, 2011 Posts: 47 Location: New Jersey, US
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:49 am Post subject:
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grantb3 wrote: | Recapping is a total waste of time.
Measure the power supply voltage at the power supply. Unplug the circuit boards from the power if all the rails don't come up.
If the power supply is OK by itself:
Measure continuity from each supply voltage to the extremes of the panel board (with the AC unplugged). +3.75v is useless. It needs to be +5v +/-10%, maybe even 5%. Same with the +-15v or whatever it has. Download the schematic and PCB layout. |
Okay, so forget recapping.
I still dont know what voltages I am looking for at the PSU. I see that all 3 rails are coming in at the point but I don't have numbers..
I am getting like -2.75VDC now... and I have checked that I am measuring from the correct ground. Last edited by buildafriend on Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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buildafriend
Joined: Jan 30, 2011 Posts: 47 Location: New Jersey, US
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:51 am Post subject:
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DES wrote: | Agreed. 3.75 for digital circuits is in the grey area of operation. i.e. it might be a "1" or it might be a "0" depending on the circuit using it. Best make sure the 5v is just that. It might be a bad 5v decoupling filter cap on one of the boards. |
Digital logic is not my field of expertise..
If I post the schemo, could you point out the decoupling cap? I could easily replace it.
thanks in advance and regardless. |
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DES
Joined: Feb 28, 2003 Posts: 794 Location: New Jersey
Audio files: 8
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:33 pm Post subject:
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Post the schematic and we can take a look at it. You should be able to find the different voltages on the schematic...follow them to components you can find on the board and carefully do your measurement there. Decoupling caps are usually near the logic or digital chips that the 5v supply is feeding. Some circuits may also put filter caps near where the power hits the board.
Did you look for cold bad solder joints and traces yet? _________________ Dave
www.davesneed.com |
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buildafriend
Joined: Jan 30, 2011 Posts: 47 Location: New Jersey, US
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:26 pm Post subject:
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You guys are the best!!
Okay so the 5V trace is feeding a logic chip. For my knowledge, the repair set aside, is that pretty standard?
So, we checked out the PSU, we found some funky stuff going on. I think it might be the regulator or the bridge rectifier. we wrote down the strange voltages here:
We plan on replacing all of the parts that come from the power xfrmr that lead to the control board. Can you help us source parts?
____________________________________________________________
Here is what we did:
we replaced c19 and c22 in the control board.
Here is what we almost did:
we almost replaced TR19, TR20, TR21, and TR22 in the LED matrix.
We were looking at replacing TR4. |
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DES
Joined: Feb 28, 2003 Posts: 794 Location: New Jersey
Audio files: 8
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:31 pm Post subject:
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First have to ask - did you check fuse F1?
Before you make any changes, pull leads for testing, etc., you need to be careful with working on the power supply. The AC mains coming into it can kill you. So, observe saftety precautions whenever working inside the synth. Always turn the JX off and unplug it from the wall whenever removing connectors or lifting leads. NOT doing this could injure or kill you or damge the synth more....
Carefully look at the power supply board for any components that look like they have been running very hot. Usually they will be discolored when compared to other similar components. This might help you to isolate where the problem is.
Ok, before replacing anything you want to definately isolate where the problem is at. BTW - did you also check the +/- 15vdc lines? Good to do so before undertaking anything further just to see where you stand.
Next I would do a quick check across the bridge rectifier (D4) AC inputs - should be 9vac or pretty close - might be a bit higher. If not, you might have a bad transformer or bridge. If you pull fuse F1 you should be able to isolate the transformer from the bridge - should see 9 vac or better where the transformer comes into the board. If so and after putting the fuse back in and voltage drops, it's probably a bridge rectifier issue. However, before assuming anything further, turn the power off and unplug the synth from the mains (AC) supply and disconnect the power supply from the rest of the synth that is connected to CN1, CN2, CN3 and CN4.
Plug the synth back into wall power and turn it on.
Now check the 5vdc and see what you have. If ok, then something that connected to one of the CN connectors is flakey. To isolate, turn power off, unplug from wall, plug CN4 back into power supply, turn the JX back on and test. If good repeat procedure and add the next CN plug. Eventually one of them will cause the 5 volts to drop...that board would be the next place to check.
What concerns me is the +7v on CN4 showing 2.9v...that comes directly from the bridge thru a 10 ohm, 3 watt resistor. If the voltage is consistantly low it points to something that could be affecting the 5v regulator and 5vdc as well.
If the 5vdc was still bad after removing all the CN connectors, check across the input to the 7805 regulator - should be ~9vac. If low - say 2 or 3 vac, you may have a bad capacitor C12 (normally if it shorted you would have 0 volts there...but strange things can happen) or the IC regulator, IC-2 could be bad. Or, the bridge could be bad. You can try doing a resistance check across the cap and see if there is a short or very low resistance (make sure power is off and JX is unplugged!!) If a low resistance shows up, try lifting one of the capacitors leads and see if the voltage comes back up when powered on. if so, bad cap. If there doesn't seem to be a short across the cap, lift the input lead to the 7805 or just pull the IC - whichever is easier. Plug the JX back in and power up - check the voltage across C12 (the input to the 7805). If it jumps up to 9vac or better, you have a bad 7805. If not, power down, unplug and reinstall the 7805. Check the bridge rectifier, D4.
If the bridge is out look on the side of it for manufacturer part numbers. You can probably get a suitable replacement thru Digikey or Mouser or one of your favorite parts suppliers. If you can't source it, put the number up here and we can try and find it. The 7805 should be able to be found just about anywhere electronic parts are sold. Same with the capacitor C12.
Well, try this and see if it helps and keep us informed. Also ask any questions that you need to. Above all - STAY SAFE! _________________ Dave
www.davesneed.com |
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DES
Joined: Feb 28, 2003 Posts: 794 Location: New Jersey
Audio files: 8
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:23 pm Post subject:
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Any updates? _________________ Dave
www.davesneed.com |
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buildafriend
Joined: Jan 30, 2011 Posts: 47 Location: New Jersey, US
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:07 am Post subject:
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we will probably get to sit back down on and work on it this week. |
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valvusmusicus
Joined: Nov 06, 2009 Posts: 56 Location: Bournemouth. UK
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:15 am Post subject:
JX3P fault |
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Hi All
I also have a fault on a JX3P
Hi all
Have a JX3P-all the power rails are correct-measured on the main PSU bd with the rest of the synth connected, and at each bd on the molex connectro-so power seems to be getting to the synth at the correct voltage.
The only problem is that the 7v rail sits at 9.4v, eith or without the synth power looms connected-could be relevant?? -but the switches dont do anything(accept memory switch 3 is permanantly illuminated) battery is a bit low-but this should not cause this problem,....should it??
The battery only backs up the memory-has no effect on the unit booting up..?does it?
Any thought
All the best
V |
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hageir
Joined: Nov 09, 2006 Posts: 30 Location: Reykjavík, Iceland
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Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:15 pm Post subject:
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I've got a JX-3P with the exact same problem;
the frontpanel is dead except the LFO Trig button,
took it apart and did a quick visual, then put it back together and all of a sudden the panel lid up.. Worked for a short time and then went out again,
I'm starting to think the upper panel gets easily shorted somehow depending on how you screw the JX together, it's quite tight in there..
Was repairing another one a year ago with the same problem,
it worked during the repair but once it was put together it stopped..
I'm taking the new one to the workshop and I'll see if I can find the culprit.
Peace! |
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grantb3
Joined: Jul 31, 2009 Posts: 29 Location: USA
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Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:24 am Post subject:
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Probably cracks or solder joint issues on the cheap panel PCB. |
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