electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
go to the radio page Live at electro-music.com radio 1 Please visit the chat
poster
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » fonik's place
8-Step Sequencer with voltage controllable pattern (VCPS)
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: fonik
Page 13 of 14 [328 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, ..., 11, 12, 13, 14 Next
Author Message
fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3950
Location: Germany
Audio files: 23

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

all i could think of by now is a propagation delay issue (however, noone reported this behaviour before): the gate is still open when the new clock trigger comes in.
try to leave off the GATE conditioner IC5B, IC5C. does this help?

i will check my builds tonight (hopefully).

_________________
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
cheers,
matthias
____________
Big Boss at fonitronik
Tech Buddy at Random*Source
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3950
Location: Germany
Audio files: 23

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:
i will check my builds tonight (hopefully).

so i did.

and in fact i too see this very short pulse. i almost got rid of it by moving the two inverts from the gates path to the clock path. i then had 4 inverters in the clock path to add some propagation delay. at very high speeds i still see the 2nd very short pulse.

i think even without this mod i never recognized the 2nd short pulse just because the subsequent modules i used did not react...

so thanks for your finding. i will look deeper into it the next days. tonight i am done, hehe. i did the mod on a SMT board by desoldering the appropriate pins of the 40106, bending them up, and connecting them by flying wires! has been a little bit fiddly... will be easier on a socketed DIP.

_________________
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
cheers,
matthias
____________
Big Boss at fonitronik
Tech Buddy at Random*Source
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
billy pilgrim



Joined: Feb 12, 2008
Posts: 36
Location: nyc

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Matthias,
Thanks for looking into this, I too thought that some kind off timing offset might be effective but had no idea how to implement it. If you find a solution I'll be keen to try it, thankfully no SMT for me.
FWIW the short "end" pulse reliably triggers my 281 clone at any speed.
billy

Quote:
and in fact i too see this very short pulse. i almost got rid of it by moving the two inverts from the gates path to the clock path. i then had 4 inverters in the clock path to add some propagation delay. at very high speeds i still see the 2nd very short pulse.

i think even without this mod i never recognized the 2nd short pulse just because the subsequent modules i used did not react...

so thanks for your finding. i will look deeper into it the next days. tonight i am done, hehe. i did the mod on a SMT board by desoldering the appropriate pins of the 40106, bending them up, and connecting them by flying wires! has been a little bit fiddly... will be easier on a socketed DIP.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3950
Location: Germany
Audio files: 23

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i just did a quick spice simulation during my morning brake using a RC delay: i put a 10 resistor followed by a 100n cap to GND between two of the inverters.
makes a nice delay, however, i don't know about the exact maths. according RC time constant we would get 1/1000 sec... anyways, you see the problem here: the delay is constant while the speed of the sequencer changes. we will have to find a good compromise, i guess.
i hope to find some time this week to implement this on one of my sequencers, and to find good values.

_________________
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
cheers,
matthias
____________
Big Boss at fonitronik
Tech Buddy at Random*Source
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
diablojoy



Joined: Sep 07, 2008
Posts: 809
Location: melbourne australia
Audio files: 11

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Matthias I think this looks like the issue i came across a while back scott stites has a good example of the behaviour on his
matrix sequencer page that he is working on, it seems it is inherent to the 4017 operation which overlaps its outputs
if it is the same problem i did a little slew daughter board a while ago to get round it for the sequential switch part on that ludicrous symple64 build of mine.
I will dig up the details when i get home tonight and see if it can be incorporated somehow from memory the slew delayed the leading edge of the clock by around 150usec
cheers
Denis

_________________
In an infinite universe one might very well
ask where the hell am I
oh yeah thats right the land of OZ
as good an answer as any
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
diablojoy



Joined: Sep 07, 2008
Posts: 809
Location: melbourne australia
Audio files: 11

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
i think even without this mod i never recognized the 2nd short pulse just because the subsequent modules i used did not react...

yes the second pulse is very short around 50+ usec's
this is the overlap of the 4017 outputs where output 2 goes high before output 1 goes low and so on for each output used
find attached how i got around this on the sequential switch circuit i mentioned, it was very neccesary in that case as i was switching clock signals though not so much generally with a straight sequencer as most EG's will not react to such a short pulse or so i thought it seems
It hasn't been an issue with my VCPS-8 so far

On the VCPS-8 the attached circuit would need to go between IC6 pin 14
and IC5 pin 11 , there is a small via between IC11 and C18 that would make a good point to solder a wire to from the output of the daughter board and you would need to cut the trace heading back to IC6.
this should have the effect of shortening the start of the clock pulse that is anded with the gate pulse till after the previous step output has released.

For the input to the daughter board i think you could get away with just running another wire from the clock in jack. edit : hmm better maybe to kludge a wire off D21/D22 cathode end instead.

the attached circuit adds a glide to the leading edge only of the pulse
so it is a little better than a simple RC circuit, admittedly it is also quite somewhat more complex. and i have not tested it with a VCPS-8 but it has been tested with a 4017 based sequential switch

If you go ahead and decide to try this the foil attachment should simply be printed straight onto pnp blue just check the scale is correct first though it should be correct.


seq switch clock adaptor scheme.pdf
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  seq switch clock adaptor scheme.pdf
 Filesize:  6.89 KB
 Downloaded:  948 Time(s)


seq switch clock adaptor.pdf
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  seq switch clock adaptor.pdf
 Filesize:  11.28 KB
 Downloaded:  907 Time(s)


seq switch clock adaptor foil.pdf
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  seq switch clock adaptor foil.pdf
 Filesize:  6.99 KB
 Downloaded:  952 Time(s)


_________________
In an infinite universe one might very well
ask where the hell am I
oh yeah thats right the land of OZ
as good an answer as any
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3950
Location: Germany
Audio files: 23

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

will try this simple delay in the clock line tonight:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

[edit: picture updated and embedded]

_________________
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
cheers,
matthias
____________
Big Boss at fonitronik
Tech Buddy at Random*Source

Last edited by fonik on Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:50 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3950
Location: Germany
Audio files: 23

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

okay, i just tested it during the lunch brake. my simple clock delay circuit works like a charm. i ended up with the trimmer set at about 9k, so 10k should still be working nicely.

SO ALL WHO EXPERIENCE PROBLEMS WITH A 2ND (GATE OFF) TRIGGER GENERATED
refering to sketch in post above:
1) bend up pins 10 & 13 of IC5 (the 40106 hex inverting schmitt trigger) - hopefully you have them socketed.
2) solder a 10k resistor between these pins (right on top of the IC).
3) solder a 100n cap from pin13 IC5 to GND (i.e. at the decoupling cap).

_________________
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
cheers,
matthias
____________
Big Boss at fonitronik
Tech Buddy at Random*Source
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
billy pilgrim



Joined: Feb 12, 2008
Posts: 36
Location: nyc

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mod works really well, though I had to use 200n. It's a great module..........

fonik wrote:
okay, i just tested it during the lunch brake. my simple clock delay circuit works like a charm. i ended up with the trimmer set at about 9k, so 10k should still be working nicely.

SO ALL WHO EXPERIENCE PROBLEMS WITH A 2ND (GATE OFF) TRIGGER GENERATED
refering to sketch in post above:
1) bend up pins 10 & 13 of IC5 (the 40106 hex inverting schmitt trigger) - hopefully you have them socketed.
2) solder a 10k resistor between these pins (right on top of the IC).
3) solder a 100n cap from pin13 IC5 to GND (i.e. at the decoupling cap).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3950
Location: Germany
Audio files: 23

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

billy pilgrim wrote:
Mod works really well, though I had to use 200n.

yep. for a 2nd module i had to go up to 33k. maybe a trimmer instead of a fixed resistor would be the way to go?

_________________
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
cheers,
matthias
____________
Big Boss at fonitronik
Tech Buddy at Random*Source
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
brother303



Joined: Nov 02, 2010
Posts: 139
Location: ruhr-area/germany

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Fonik,

do you still have pcbs on stock? I´d like to purchase another one.

Cheers
Greg

Wink

_________________
Best regards
Greg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blynkmusic



Joined: Jun 07, 2013
Posts: 1
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Are you still making these units? I would love a ready made rack unit if you have any left over? Very Happy

Thanks,
Sam
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3950
Location: Germany
Audio files: 23

PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

here it is:
http://www.schneidersladen.de/en/fonitronik-adc-pattern-sequencer-2

or here:
http://www.analoguehaven.com/fonitronik/mh11/

or here:
http://equinoxoz.com/ordering/fonitronik/mh11-adc-pattern-sequencer

Very Happy

_________________
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
cheers,
matthias
____________
Big Boss at fonitronik
Tech Buddy at Random*Source
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
bamboombaps



Joined: Oct 23, 2015
Posts: 66
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

will this ever get another run? *realises thread is older than my children*
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3950
Location: Germany
Audio files: 23

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

meanwhile the sequencer is available as eurorack module via schneidersladen and analoguehaven. however, you could buy a module directly from me.

anyways, i am planning to do a new version with front panel adapter PCBs for 4U/Serge and Eurorack. no schefude yet.

_________________
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
cheers,
matthias
____________
Big Boss at fonitronik
Tech Buddy at Random*Source
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
bamboombaps



Joined: Oct 23, 2015
Posts: 66
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've actually got a pcb coming in a trade but ill need a panel if there's any kicking around
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bamboombaps



Joined: Oct 23, 2015
Posts: 66
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

or even if theres a .fpd file for euro?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3950
Location: Germany
Audio files: 23

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bamboombaps wrote:
or even if theres a .fpd file for euro?

we emailed, no?
your package is on it's way already...

_________________
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
cheers,
matthias
____________
Big Boss at fonitronik
Tech Buddy at Random*Source
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
bamboombaps



Joined: Oct 23, 2015
Posts: 66
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:21 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yep this was before i emailed you

thanks again matthias thumb up
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
diablojoy



Joined: Sep 07, 2008
Posts: 809
Location: melbourne australia
Audio files: 11

PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Recently did a euro build of this
came out ok still working out a bug or two though Laughing
aged a gated slew and a run /stop button
(first time I did a self etch double sided board for the panel controls only)
still have to do a second one.


[/img]


20190427_162216.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  3.58 MB
 Viewed:  266 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

20190427_162216.jpg



_________________
In an infinite universe one might very well
ask where the hell am I
oh yeah thats right the land of OZ
as good an answer as any
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3950
Location: Germany
Audio files: 23

PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wow! that looks great. and see a build after all these years!

i am working on a MK2 from time to time. it has a s/h for the CV output and the pattern could be loaded by an external pulse (latch for the ADC). the first eurorack prototype had some errors, the 4U version worked out well, though.

the eurorack MK2 has slider jsut like yours, the 4U come in two versions, one with CV, another just with gate outputs:


_________________
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
cheers,
matthias
____________
Big Boss at fonitronik
Tech Buddy at Random*Source
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
blue hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24075
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 277
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Waking up .. 10 years after ... this is a nice idea Laughing

Hm .. but with step count selectable from 1 to16, a dir input and pattern inversion (upside down) .. then come to think of it .. set the pots to random values in some controlled way .. something like that.

/me starts drawing & coding for the soft synth ...

heh .. one can never have enough sequencers .. seemingly .. or maybe that's just another way to say that all sequencers suck Shocked .. anyways .. to work.

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3950
Location: Germany
Audio files: 23

PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Waking up .. 10 years after ... this is a nice idea Laughing

Hm .. but with step count selectable from 1 to16, a dir input and pattern inversion (upside down) .. then come to think of it .. set the pots to random values in some controlled way .. something like that.

/me starts drawing & coding for the soft synth ...

heh .. one can never have enough sequencers .. seemingly .. or maybe that's just another way to say that all sequencers suck Shocked .. anyways .. to work.

haha, yes.
i am not into coding Jan, but just recently i bought myself a book for beginners, starting with C and Arduino, then continuing with C++ and Teensy. And the first thing I wanted to do was a sequencer.

regarding 16 steps:
16 steps would mean 16bit, thus too many different patterns one could select with just one control voltage. I rather thought of making the 8-step chainable.

_________________
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
cheers,
matthias
____________
Big Boss at fonitronik
Tech Buddy at Random*Source
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
blue hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24075
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 277
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:
regarding 16 steps:
16 steps would mean 16bit, thus too many different patterns one could select with just one control voltage. I rather thought of making the 8-step chainable.


Hmm .. that seems to make sense .. will experiment a bit .. it may not be as much of an issue for a digital synth, but will need some tinkering about how to control it ... will have to see where it ends up. Thanks for your thoughts about this.

Re. coding .. more computers into the rack ... already seeing lots of interesting modules based on that idea Exclamation

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3950
Location: Germany
Audio files: 23

PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Re. coding .. more computers into the rack ... already seeing lots of interesting modules based on that idea Exclamation

Seriously, I am not interested in digital sound generation. I love the idea of analog. But I recently worked on the Serge TKB, which has a quite complicated CMOS logic (at least for me it is). And I start to believe that especially all this logic could perfectly put into the digital software controlled domain without compromising the idea of having analg audio.

_________________
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
cheers,
matthias
____________
Big Boss at fonitronik
Tech Buddy at Random*Source
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: fonik
Page 13 of 14 [328 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, ..., 11, 12, 13, 14 Next
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » fonik's place
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use