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alanwilder81
Joined: Sep 03, 2016 Posts: 310 Location: italy
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:37 am Post subject:
Roland filters clones with LM 13700 |
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hello chaps,
i decided to open a separate thread to discuss the Roland filters cloning.
i've come across some nice 70's schematics, but they all employ the rare OTA 3080.
I also found modern schems from Mutable Instruments that specifies the LM 13700 instead. I have no experience in building either of the above, so i would like to hear from more knowledgeable guys for opinions and experiences. Any help is very welcome |
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ringroad
Joined: Feb 28, 2012 Posts: 38 Location: Coventry, UK
Audio files: 1
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:22 pm Post subject:
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The FC System X 100m VCF clone uses a couple of LM13700s, might be worth looking at that. Their State 700 System 700 12db filter clone also uses a LM13700.
The Curetronic 121 VCF clone used BA6110 chips, which you might still be able to get hold of. Curetronic don't do the boards any more, but you might be able to work out the schematic from their board pattern:
http://www.bild-schall.com/media/assets/assembly-instructions/Assembly_Instructions_100M_121_VCF_2010.pdf
I used CA3080s in my System 700 703e 24db VCF clone, but since then I got the impression that they've got rarer, dunno if Rochester are running out or something - I'd be tempted to try and fit it with LM13700s to see if it sounds any different. |
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alanwilder81
Joined: Sep 03, 2016 Posts: 310 Location: italy
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:38 pm Post subject:
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thanks ringroad,
they say the LM 13700 is right up to 3080's specs,just less noisy.Nowadays,the latter being as rare as the purple unicorn, it's worth experimenting a bit with the 13700.
I am looking for filter schematics, would you have a chance to get me some related to the above projects?
thanks ! |
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ringroad
Joined: Feb 28, 2012 Posts: 38 Location: Coventry, UK
Audio files: 1
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Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:27 am Post subject:
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musikding seem to have some CA3080 in stock; is expensive though
http://www.musikding.de/CA3080
I don't have any schematics for the Frequency Central version of the 100m VCF or 700 VCF: just check the Roland service manuals for the originals, or you might be able to buy PCBs for them.
Florian Anwander has some schematics for the System 700 (in the 703A/B/C/D, R33 should be 1K, btw). |
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alanwilder81
Joined: Sep 03, 2016 Posts: 310 Location: italy
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:31 am Post subject:
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thanks ringroad !
So you are a lucky owner of one of those babies. Jeez. Early Human League heaven |
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Cfish
Joined: Feb 24, 2016 Posts: 477 Location: Indiana
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Cfish
Joined: Feb 24, 2016 Posts: 477 Location: Indiana
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alanwilder81
Joined: Sep 03, 2016 Posts: 310 Location: italy
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 7:58 am Post subject:
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hey Cfish
thanks a lot for that material. I'd already had a look at this wonderful work some time ago.A bit forgotten though as i never bought the LM 13700 to work with.
I agree,it's an excellent piece of science that sheds some light on the OTA s we all know and love, and unravels some myth around them ! |
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alanwilder81
Joined: Sep 03, 2016 Posts: 310 Location: italy
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:02 am Post subject:
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anyway,we havent spoken for a while. How are you doing with your synth ? |
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Cfish
Joined: Feb 24, 2016 Posts: 477 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:50 am Post subject:
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I'm making progress. In my second rack I'm trying to get a firmer grasp on the cd4xxx series of cmos ic's. Experimenting a lot with dividers. Playing with 4046 VCO
Things like the CGS01 sub octave
I really recommend at least a basic divider for your synth.
In easy to build, bang for your buck, add huge depth to a single VCO sound.
You can't beat a simple 2 octave divider.
I have the Roland filter clone that lead to this thread on my to do list. However there are a lot of things in front of it.
Have a half done divider, 4 channel sequencer, and a 6 Chanel mixer I need to finish. Got to build 2 ADSRs 2 VCAs for my current rack of modules |
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alanwilder81
Joined: Sep 03, 2016 Posts: 310 Location: italy
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:40 am Post subject:
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Cfish,
nice to hear about your progresses !
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StephenGiles
Joined: Apr 17, 2006 Posts: 507 Location: England
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wackelpeter
Joined: May 05, 2013 Posts: 461 Location: germany
Audio files: 10
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:16 pm Post subject:
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Did the System 100 VCF with LM13700 and also posted a stripboard layout for that somewhere in this forum...
Mostly all design for the Roland filters are the same basic topology some OTA (also a few different types) different buffers then... but basically they look very close...
There's also a site with a summary of most VCF's Roland ever made with schematics... don't have the link right here but it shouldn't be hard to find. _________________ https://soundcloud.com/bastian-j |
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alanwilder81
Joined: Sep 03, 2016 Posts: 310 Location: italy
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 3:45 pm Post subject:
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thanks wackelpeter
i kind of guess the schematics collection you mean.Trouble is,they employ rare and obsolete components,and what s worse,some of those diagrams are hard to decipher, at least to me |
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alanwilder81
Joined: Sep 03, 2016 Posts: 310 Location: italy
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 3:51 pm Post subject:
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so i'd like to find modern Roland VCF reissue schematics easy to understand. like the thousands minimoog or ms20 filters,to name a few,that have been faithfully recreated with readily available components, and the schematics are foolproof sadly, there's no lots of Roland VCF material around. |
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Cynosure
Site Admin
Joined: Dec 11, 2010 Posts: 966 Location: Toronto, Ontario - Canada
Audio files: 82
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Cfish
Joined: Feb 24, 2016 Posts: 477 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 4:18 pm Post subject:
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I have been studying the Roland OTA filter schematics a lot lately. They intrigue me a lot.
Beyond the basics of filters, I don't know much. I have played with the single pole low pass and butterworth low pass in the LM13700 application sheet.
Can anyone point out some good basic reading on multi pole filter designs like these?
Schematics look pretty similar to a 4 pole phase shifter. |
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alanwilder81
Joined: Sep 03, 2016 Posts: 310 Location: italy
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Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 4:33 pm Post subject:
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thanks Cynosure,very much appreciated !
is the Juno 60 schematics related to the project you mentioned you've been working on? It's in fact 4 OTA s in a row,but i cant see the feedback loop,nor the cutoff and resonance pots. is the schematic sorta incomplete?
cheers! |
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alanwilder81
Joined: Sep 03, 2016 Posts: 310 Location: italy
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Cfish
Joined: Feb 24, 2016 Posts: 477 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:14 pm Post subject:
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This is an EFM version of an oberhime filter, not Roland but it has that sound.
It's only 2 pole but it sounds really nice
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alanwilder81
Joined: Sep 03, 2016 Posts: 310 Location: italy
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:56 am Post subject:
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hello Cfish,
thanks for the suggestion.
I believe that there are many excellent schematics to implement within that website. I also built a fantastic MS 20 filter replica that sounds spot on to my ears.Sure it's a 12 db oct, but nevertheless very gritty and aggressive |
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ringroad
Joined: Feb 28, 2012 Posts: 38 Location: Coventry, UK
Audio files: 1
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:02 pm Post subject:
703e VCF clone with LM13700s patched in |
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Just for you, alanwilder81, (but tbh also for my curiosity too) I whipped the CA3080s out of my Roland filter clone and wired it up to three LM13700s in a breadboard, as the below terrible photo indicates.
It works, there's a rather out-of-tune demo attached to this, with attendant huge clicks from my noisy System 100 keyboard when I transpose. Haven't quite got the scaling right on the clone oscillator yet. You get the idea, anyway.
Assuming I've wired it up correctly, I'm still not sure if it sounds quite as good as the 3080 version. Hard to tell cos my other demo is straight out of the 703e clone rather than going back into the System 100.
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Cfish
Joined: Feb 24, 2016 Posts: 477 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:09 pm Post subject:
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Nice experiment ringroad. |
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Cynosure
Site Admin
Joined: Dec 11, 2010 Posts: 966 Location: Toronto, Ontario - Canada
Audio files: 82
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:44 pm Post subject:
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alanwilder81 wrote: | thanks Cynosure,very much appreciated !
is the Juno 60 schematics related to the project you mentioned you've been working on? It's in fact 4 OTA s in a row,but i cant see the feedback loop,nor the cutoff and resonance pots. is the schematic sorta incomplete?
cheers! |
That link was for making a clone of the JUNO-106 filter chip, which didn't include the resonance circuit. However, you can see the resonance circuit in the JUNO-6 schematic on that page. I started with the exact same resonance circuit and it worked great. Then I modified it to work even better (to my taste).
The pots are part of the CV and expo conversion circuit, which I copied from the TH VCF-1. _________________ JacobWatters.com |
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alanwilder81
Joined: Sep 03, 2016 Posts: 310 Location: italy
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:01 am Post subject:
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hey ringroad. nice beast there ! any chanche to provide me with the schematics ?cheers |
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