electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Buchla 230 Triple Envelope Follower
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: jksuperstar, Scott Stites, Uncle Krunkus
Page 2 of 2 [49 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: Previous 1, 2
Author Message
beautyofdecay_



Joined: Aug 14, 2009
Posts: 38
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:32 pm    Post subject: BOM updated Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I found 2 errors in the BOM.
You will need 6 4.7k resistors (not 3) and you will only need 2 ferrite beads instead of 6.

I uploaded the new BOM which you can download in my previous post.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
camelneck



Joined: Sep 27, 2008
Posts: 68
Location: KY (USA)

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TekniK wrote:
Done! did take me more time as expexted,If some one try it ,feedback is welcome.

Pdf contains PCB + parts implementation.


I still see an error in the PCB layout. I believe that this module will work correctly once this error has been corrected.

When I first glanced at the 230 schematic I noticed two things that were a bit confusing:
#1) The right side of R6 connects only to the left side of R10.
It appears that Teknik has since fixed this problem on his revised layout.
#2) C2 connects to pin 1 of the op amp (not pin 2).

While the first issue was resolved correctly in Teknik's latest PCB layout, issue #2 has not been resolved correctly. C2 has been mistakenly connected to pin 2 of the op amp instead of pin 1.

If we assume that the schematic is correct (and I believe it is), C2 HAS to be connected to pin 1 of the op amp. Otherwise, the schematic would be wrong because it would imply that both inputs of the op amp (pins 1 & 2) are shorted together and there is no way the circuit would work properly if this were the case. (Teknik must have seen this problem and thought that the schematic was wrong, because the inputs aren't shorted on his layout.)

Unfortunately, I have not etched the PCB yet. Thus, I can't VERIFY that this correction will make the PCB 100% functional. However, for anybody who has already etched Teknik's revised version of this PCB and mounted the components on it, it is a very simple matter to correct this problem. Just follow these 2 simple steps:
1) Unsolder and lift the leg of C2 (100pF) that is closest to pin 2 of the 4136 IC.
2) Solder this now lifted leg of C2 (100pF) to pin 1 of the 4136 IC.
ALTERNATIVE: It may be easier to solder the lifted leg of C2 to diode D1, which is located right beside C2. Make sure that you solder the lifted leg of C2 to the leg of the diode that is connected to pin 1 of the 4136 IC. (This should be the leg of the diode that is closest to the lifted leg of C2.)

To fix the PCB layout,
1) Reroute the trace from pin 2 of the 4136 so it runs between the two solder pads for C2. By doing so, this trace will no longer be connected to one of C2's solder pads. (In fact, ths solder pad (for C2) will now be unconnected.)
2) Run a trace from pin 1 of the 4136 to the unconnected solder pad of C2. (This is the pad that pin 2 of the 4136 was previously connected to.)
3) Make sure that you repeat these same changes for the other 2 circuits on the PCB.

I honestly believe that fixing this problem will make this module functional because I didn't find any other problems.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
n.d



Joined: Dec 15, 2011
Posts: 52
Location: Talos IV

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So, camelneck, did you make it work?
Anyone?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oneoff



Joined: Nov 23, 2008
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Hi TekniK,

Unfortunately I did not find a picture of the traces side of the PCB (yet).

maybe this will help to move forward ...
the back side of the PCB from an auction

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2Zt5uWFdUdo/UP301pXFy7I/AAAAAAAGdJ8/s7IqxXPeM_g/s1600/%2524%2528KGrHqV%252C%2521q0FCz%252BHCwQ5BQ%252BdU4z%2529Vw%257E%257E60_3.JPG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Starspawn



Joined: Jun 14, 2013
Posts: 85
Location: Oslo

PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great, good luck to all, Im watching this and will build once the hard work is done Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
camelneck



Joined: Sep 27, 2008
Posts: 68
Location: KY (USA)

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Some Good News.

After postponing this project several times, I finally got some spare time last week and decided to bite the bullet. After finding and correcting at least 12 mistakes (4 mistakes on each of the 3 sections), I etched my own PCB using Press N' Peel Blue. (The biggest problems with Teknik's layout involved the supply power to the op amps. They were being powered from the trim pot meaning they were powered by less than +/- 1V instead of +/- 15V. There was also some grounding issues that had to be corrected. I also moved the leg of the 1oopf capacitor from pin 2 to pin 1 of the IC.))

It had been awhile since I last etched my own PCB, but the final product turned out perfect with all traces intact. Unfortunately, I only had 1 5K trim pot and just enough of the 1.0uf and 4.7uF capacitors to complete 1 of the 3 Envelope Followers. (So only 1 of the 3 envelope followers on the PCB has been built and tested so far.)

The good news is, the first of the three envelope followers, which was completed and tested this weekend, seems to be working just fine. However, it may be 2 to 5 weeks before I receive the remaining parts, make my front panel, complete all the wiring, and give the entire module a thorough testing. However, I have toned out all the traces on the remaining two envelope followers and since they are identical to the one that is working, I don't expect any problems (certainly nothing major.)

While I await the remaining parts that I need, I am going to make a front panel which will probably be like one of those that RSFC was selling some time ago. Once I receive the parts (4 capacitors and 2 trim pots), I will solder them on the PCB, complete the wiring, and test the entire module. Once I'm confident everything is working properly, I'll upload the revised PCB layout as well as a jumper map. (The parts layout created by Teknik can be used for the revised layout.)

A few days before I started working on this project, I sent Technik an email requesting a higher quality jpg file as well as permission to modify the file that he made. However, it has been over a week since I sent that email and I've not received a response.

PETTY ISSUES

I wish that some of the pads were a bit bigger. I enlarged some of the more critical pads, but I didn't have the time to enlarge them all especially since I was having to do this in Paint Shop Pro. This may not be an issue for people who are using drill bits smaller than 1/32". The only drill bit that I had at that time was a 1/32 of an inch which is a bit larger than the ones I have used in the past. Thus, I managed to chew up a few pads during the drilling process. However, since the traces were fairly wide, I was able to solder to the trace when no pad was available and this worked out fine.

Another issue was the power connector. I made an error in judgement and "assumed" that the +15V, gnd, and -15V pins were spaced at 0.156" apart and I left them "as is" since I planned to use a MTA-156 header which MOTM PCBs have.. However, the pins turned out to be spaced 0.2" apart. I modified a 6 pin MTA-100 header (removing every other pin) and soldered it here. However, the simplest and best solution is to just solder the power wires directly to the PCB instead of using a header.

This PCB has a lot of jumpers--14 total. I had to add several more jumpers to the PCB in addition to those that Teknik had already added. I will iupload a jumper placement drawing when I upload the revised layout.

Last edited by camelneck on Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fluxmonkey



Joined: Jun 24, 2005
Posts: 708
Location: cleve

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

so, is the original schemo correct? (some of them have deliberate errors...)

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

_________________
www.fluxmonkey.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
camelneck



Joined: Sep 27, 2008
Posts: 68
Location: KY (USA)

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fluxmonkey wrote:
so, is the original schemo correct? (some of them have deliberate errors...)

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.


Yes, the schematic is correct. As for the unlabeled capacitor, I used a 100pf capacitor.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
memorygardens



Joined: Mar 06, 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Cleveland

PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

any hope on a revised layout? I want this to be my first diy buchla project......
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
siri



Joined: Apr 04, 2014
Posts: 6
Location: here

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

any update?

you can see the traces on http://djjondent.blogspot.ca/2014/06/buchla-230-envelope-follower-tracker.html

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Hope it helps.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nuclues



Joined: May 19, 2016
Posts: 1
Location: Denmark

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi There

Could someone be nice to tell what " LED R" is ? Value etc


All the be from Nick
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ReToxx



Joined: Dec 06, 2016
Posts: 8
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi, I am wondering how to get this running properly in eurorack
environment. Which parts should be changed, to get the right cv and gate levels?
Any advice would be highly appreciated...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Grumble



Joined: Nov 23, 2015
Posts: 1294
Location: Netherlands
Audio files: 30

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Maybe a silly question, but what is the use of a envelope follower?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
wackelpeter



Joined: May 05, 2013
Posts: 461
Location: germany
Audio files: 10

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's detecting audio signals and gives out Pulses (Gate, Trigger) and CV... some only give out CV but many also gate or trigger...

Many have adjustable gain or sensivity so you are able to roughly choose the point where it gives you a CV or gate out...

Useful if you want a an signal running through an VCA be somehow "synced" or "played" by an drum machine or any other audio signal... then just use the CV out... or use the gate/trigger to fire an envelope and use this CV...

Many things that come into mind... this one is nice as you can set not only the sensitivity but also the delay/decay time...

You can also run simple pulses into it.. any signal above a certain level give some response...

BTW. it's an nice and easy built... have recently build 2 of them on stripboard... (by 2 i mean just 2 single env.followers and not 2 triple-env.followers)

Edit: i meant audio and not audi signals... not that i'm convicted for camouflage advertising Very Happy

_________________
https://soundcloud.com/bastian-j

Last edited by wackelpeter on Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:10 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Grumble



Joined: Nov 23, 2015
Posts: 1294
Location: Netherlands
Audio files: 30

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah, oke!
I didn't saw any use for it, but I guess thats because I thought I have trigger pulses, gate signals and adsr signals in my synth, didn't think about external audio sources.
Thank you!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
wackelpeter



Joined: May 05, 2013
Posts: 461
Location: germany
Audio files: 10

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well you can get also control signals out from it from some of your own processed sounds... like an filtered noise source or the signal from a VCO sequence... what ever source signal you can think of...
_________________
https://soundcloud.com/bastian-j
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AlanP



Joined: Mar 11, 2014
Posts: 746
Location: New Zealand
Audio files: 41

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd say the most common envelope generator type in the world is the one in all those autowah guitar pedals (Quacky, Meatball, Snow White Auto Wah, Mutron III being one of the granddaddies).

In that application, the envelope follower takes the guitar signal and extracts the envelope from it (the CV that you'd use on a VCA) for the wahfilter itself.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ReToxx



Joined: Dec 06, 2016
Posts: 8
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What exactly is the function of the 5k trimmer? It sits between the external power supply and the vcc +/- of the IC. Can I adjust the voltage Inputs or Output or what is this good for?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LFLab



Joined: Dec 17, 2009
Posts: 497
Location: Rosmalen, Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No experience with the Buchla 230 schematic myself, but I researched envelope followers at the beginning of my modular career (as the original intent was to use the modular as effects device for bass and guitar), and it appears the Buchla schematic is pretty "quick" and thus better suited to following percussion inputs than guitar.
Digisound 80-13 is an interesting schematic if you are after envelope followers for guitar, or the Polyfusion schematic (switcheable slow/fast response IIRC).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ReToxx



Joined: Dec 06, 2016
Posts: 8
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd like to use mainly Voice as input and propably use it to get gate signals from other synths... just asked the question with the 5ktrimmer, because i'd like to run this on 12volt, which i think should not be a problem. But as all connections from power suplly to the IC run through this trimmer, i thought it has something to do with it...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Grumble



Joined: Nov 23, 2015
Posts: 1294
Location: Netherlands
Audio files: 30

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

R3 50k trimpot is used to trim the offset of the following opamp(s).
Using it with +-12 volt is no problem as far as this trimpot goes (which by the way is NOT sitting between the external power supply and the Vcc +/- of the IC).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
ReToxx



Joined: Dec 06, 2016
Posts: 8
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

somebody, please help me!
i build the envelope section several times now, but all i get is some audio
at the cv out. the sensitivity pot controls the loudness and decay makes the audio steppier and finally disappear... so somehow everything works almost as it should. but i have audio out instead of cv, the voltage is much to low.
whats the matter, what am i doing wrong. im slowly getting insane! Evil or Very Mad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wackelpeter



Joined: May 05, 2013
Posts: 461
Location: germany
Audio files: 10

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Is it running on +/-15V or did you tried it on +/-12V?

Did you build it from the original schematic and did you used a PCB layout of the ones posted before?

Maybe add a picture of the component and soldering/trace side.

_________________
https://soundcloud.com/bastian-j
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ReToxx



Joined: Dec 06, 2016
Posts: 8
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i was using this plan http://electro-music.com/forum/phpbb-files/buchla230a_ef_134.jpg, but used the supply filters of the original, with the 1ohm resistors. but i don't think that matters. as ic i use an rc4558 because nothing else was available here, my zener diode is this one here (https://www.conrad.de/de/z-diode-zpd39v-gehaeuseart-halbleiter-do-35-diotec-zener-spannung-39-v-leistung-max-p-tot-504-mw-180068.html) for the same reason. unfortunately my package with the "right" parts got somehow lost in the mail...
allright, i tried out 12V and 15V with no difference at all.
but today i discovered something strange. at first it seemed to really work for the first time, but after a short while it suddenly got stuck on 6V level with no input, which then rose up to about 8V with an input signal.
after that i did some experimenting with grounding and the 5k trimmer, which i finally took out completely and left the traces exactly as they are, just took the trimmer out, nothing else, and now it works again. my max voltage level is around 6V to 7V, when a signal coming from a synth is applied. doesn't really works with phone audio levels though (output voltage too low)...
im breadboarding, by the way...
i thing it has something to do with grounding issues...
if anybody ones good resources about proper grounding, what to take care of, etc., feel free to tell me. basically what do is connect all grounding traces together...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: jksuperstar, Scott Stites, Uncle Krunkus
Page 2 of 2 [49 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: Previous 1, 2
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use