electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
Live streaming at radio.electro-music.com

  host / artist show at your time
  EdisonRex Edison's Electronic Review
Please visit the chat
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Linux as a music workstation
Diving in. (Linux day1)
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: jksuperstar
Page 1 of 1 [20 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
Kassen
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 7678
Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:47 pm    Post subject: Diving in. (Linux day1) Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yay, today I´m diving in.

I´ve always had a softspot for the free (as in beer, speach *and* liberty) side of software. Arguably the most important developments in electronic music were booked in that corner of the world, albeit under the radar of the mainstream but always lacked a capable extra pc.

Yesterday I bought a second desktop of housemate Tim. It´s supposed to eventually replace this one for browsing and mailing but I figured there´s realy no reason at all for it to run windows since browsing and mailing woork perfectly fine on Linux or any other system, for that matter. I prefer to run different systems next to eachother to have greater access to toys, I contemplated a cheap mac for a while but this makes more sense.

It´s a nice system for this purpose. a 1.2 gig athlon, 750 or so mb of ram. It can input and output tv if need be for vj-ing experiments and it has a soundblaster Live (not that good but it´s very compattible which is good now). It also reads dvds, has two USB ports on the back and the mobo has space for two more. No firewire. There´s currently a non-audio version of linux on it already, proving it all works with Linux.

The original plan was to leave it be for a few weeks untill I had the time to transfer all of my data from this desktop but today I woke up feeling like plugging it in and setting it up for music. A spare monitor and mouse are around and yesterday I saw a 2 euro pc keyboard at a dumpstore which will serve untill I either give it this IBM model M or find it a "new" one.

Agnula´s ISO just finished downloading from the nice people at IRCAM which means I have everything but the keyboard now which I should have in a few hours. Unless something goes wrong I should have it running by nightfall.

The plan is to eventually set up something like Plogue Bidule on the laptop to translate between the Rewire/MIDI world of Live on my laptop and OSC which should sync up this box. It´s going to do the more experimental side of computer music (as in Roads, not as is Reason) to compliment the intentionally conservative setup of the Laptop. I´m currently particularly interested in FFT based operations, learning OSC and custom sequencers for it.

I´m hoping to keep a sort of diary or "progress report" here untill this box either gives me something sensible and usable or I give up and feed it BeOS instead. If all goes well I should be posting these from that PC soon enough. This is a experiment; current wisdom holds that Linux isn´t yet ready as a solo platform for commercial aplications, I´m intending to test it´s value in a supporting role next to material that is (my laptop, running mainly Live, Tassman and controling the NM).

Oh, and I´m calling it "Avalon", after Mamoru Oshii´s film.

To do for today;
vacum clean the thing and screw down the HD.
Burn iso.
Get cheap keyboard.
Plug up.
Install.

_________________
Kassen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Kassen
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 7678
Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It would´ve been nice to have something romantic as a first obstacle. Instead I had a fight with the video card....

Swaped in a old s3 trio which may be ancient but which is compattible with everything. that worked, swaped back to the large one which aparently got so scared by the trio that it decided to work.

Debian is currently autodetecting my components. Yay.

_________________
Kassen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17630
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 125
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I wish you the best success with this project. I hope to follow your example soon, but first I have to catch up on a lot of shit, upgrade the forum, migrate this site to another provider, and tons of other stuff. I think I am a composer too. Shocked
_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Kassen
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 7678
Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, H, if you have the spare computer already you could probably do this *while* doing the other things! I just installed this while playing streetfighter against Tim (my housemate, not the board member). It auto-detected everything and is nopw up and running already. Everything looks fine though I didn´t have time to check wether it actually outputs sound.

Fluxbox, the graphical environd manager Nescivi recomended I should use looks beautifull and minimal.

This was easier then instyalling windows.

So far....

_________________
Kassen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
nescivi



Joined: Mar 23, 2005
Posts: 94
Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hurray for Kas!

some video card manufacturers are indeed nasty and do not support the free world.
on the other hand, it could be that there is a closed source driver available for that particular video card, but that will then require doing kernel compile stuff...

anyway, curious about whether it will "beep".

a few programs to check out:
Rezound: nice sound editor (supports up to 8 channel files as well, which is nice; if you load more-than-8-channel files, it tells you where to change the source code, which is also nice Smile )

TerminatorX: looping stuff Smile

Hydrogen: sequencing

Ardour: multitrack recording

JACK: meterbrigde: very handy to see your levels (in different graphical looks as well. it can do classic VU-meters)
JACK-RACK: a rack to put in LADSPA effects (LADSPA is like the linux plugin format)

and of course Pd and SC...

you can of course also just try every program from the sound-menu....

good luck!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
nescivi



Joined: Mar 23, 2005
Posts: 94
Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oh yeah, did I mention JACK itself?
but, I believe, Agnula is configured so that that starts automatically as your sound server.
It allows you to patch sound from most sound applications to most others, and of course to the output.

csound should be also available...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
glaive



Joined: Sep 14, 2003
Posts: 69
Location: Bloomington, IN

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Fluxbox is really cool, also check out XFCE is you want something a little GUIer. I like'm both.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kassen
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 7678
Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nescivi wrote:
hurray for Kas!

some video card manufacturers are indeed nasty and do not support the free world.


Erm, this wasn´t a driver issue, it worked with linux already, we knew that. It wasn´t displaying anything at all. No bios, not bootup sequence, just black schreen.

_________________
Kassen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
jksuperstar



Joined: Aug 20, 2004
Posts: 2492
Location: Denver
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 18

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Video: was this running on both Agnula and Debian? (or are you using the debian version of agnula?) I've found agnula to be fairly sparce in terms of peripheral drivers, so you might end up downloading a module or two, compiliong them, and adding them to your modules.conf

Programs: You like Ableton Live, you might try "Wired". I posted elsewhere about this program...it's still in Beta, but looks alot like Live. Though you also like the routing of Live, which JACK provides in the Linux world.

Don't forget to add Pd and KeyKit for your algorythmic endeavors.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kassen
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 7678
Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Update; I figured out how to have sound through Jack.
Should you ever make a Linux distro for audio; please locate something along the lines of "testfile.wav" in a convenient place. Now I had to patch up a "test tone generator" in a modular synth to test. A bit 50´s, if you ask me.

Currently my largest question is how on earth I can look in directories, looking at what´s on a random cd is would be nice too.

JKS; yes, the debian version of agnula, it´s what Ircam had for me and I figured anything from Ircam would be good. it demudi, or something... I´m currently a bit confused about all the clever abreveations.

Jack is great, b.t.w., Jack IMHO is one of the greatest achievements of the open source world since it´s actually ahead of what windows is doing.

Anyway, I declare day1 a success. Goodf thing too because my test setup was standing in the middle of the room for easy access to all sides and now it can move into a corner.

_________________
Kassen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
nescivi



Joined: Mar 23, 2005
Posts: 94
Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

you can always open up a terminal and do "ls" to see what's in a directory. Furthermore, there's the "cd" command to switch to another directory.

I'm not sure right now, which file browser is included with Agnula. Might be Nautilus actually (just look in your menu).

Another tip: open up "synaptic" for selecting more programs to install (or de-install ones you do not need).


About Agnula Demudi: Demudi means Debian Music Distribution. In the past there was also a Redhat Music Distribution (Remudi), but I believe that one has been discontinued.


oh, and for testfile... I think XMMS is automatically part of the system overview (GKrellM) that shows up on the desktop automatically. In there, you should be able to play a soundfile without any problems...

anyway. I will install a computer here at the uni with Agnula very soon (as soon as I found some IDE-cables and screws...), and will then be able to tell you more precise things.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kassen
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 7678
Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nescivi wrote:
you can always open up a terminal and do "ls" to see what's in a directory. Furthermore, there's the "cd" command to switch to another directory.


It´s not that I´m scared of prompts; I uae them for some stuff when they are faster but for -say- cpoying files off a cd to a project dit on the hd that simply won´t do in 2005. It´s ok if it´s no more advanced then the Atari´s Gem but I do want drage&drop and double clicking to open and so on.

Quote:

I'm not sure right now, which file browser is included with Agnula. Might be Nautilus actually (just look in your menu).


Will check. Curse this heat!

Quote:

About Agnula Demudi: Demudi means Debian Music Distribution. In the past there was also a Redhat Music Distribution (Remudi), but I believe that one has been discontinued.


Well, I saw multiple options and went with the IRCAM one. I trust IRCAM.

Quote:

oh, and for testfile... I think XMMS is automatically part of the system overview (GKrellM) that shows up on the desktop automatically. In there, you should be able to play a soundfile without any problems...


The what in the who?
I can´t see a testfile and I couldn´t figure out how to browse the cdrom. I hadn´t even gotten to playing yet.

Quote:

anyway. I will install a computer here at the uni with Agnula very soon (as soon as I found some IDE-cables and screws...), and will then be able to tell you more precise things.


Yay! you can have somo of my ide cables, I have plenty.
:¬p

_________________
Kassen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Afro88



Joined: Jun 20, 2004
Posts: 701
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Audio files: 12
G2 patch files: 79

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

xmms is the linux equivelant of winamp, it should be in your kde/gnome start menu. From here you can do the old file->open and browse directories to find audio (mp3s, wavs etc.) to play. Your cdrom should be located in /mnt/cdrom but if not you'll have to mount it yourself... I think from command line it's "mount -t iso9660 /dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom" but I could have that wrong.... something like that anyway.

I used to use linux about 2 years ago but got fed up trying to get audio stuff working. I used the PlanetCCRMA series of rpms. I got a few things going, but couldn't get a sequener working Sad Rosegarden just wouldn't compile properly. So that meant I could play around with pd and a few others which was fun, but my windows installation could do it anyway so I gave up. It looks like things have progressed since then though. Definitely check out Ardour, a Protools clone (this is another one I couldn't get working).

I'd be interested to know how everything works when you get it installed. I've got a spare 10 gigs here that would be tempting to partition off for another test of linux if yours goes well Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kassen
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 7678
Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So far everything seems installed properly and working fine, it´s just that I have a menu of all the stuff installed and it´s all weird words and letters and stuff.

xmms sounds fine, but how am I supposed to know that the text "xmms" relates to playing files? or "Nautillus" to scanning through drives and dirs?

I think it´s a great system, realy easy to setup and it comes with lots and lots of free stuff, my problem is just that I have no idea what free stuff is where. Perhaps I should edicate tomorow evening to looking at the help-files that came with it.

I didn´t have to compile anything yet either, if that was your problem then perhaps it´s time to give demudi another look because this seems very much aimed at the sort of person who does not enjoy compiling obscure code.

_________________
Kassen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17630
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 125
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

One learns Linux best by from other people. When you don't know something, just ask and you'll learn little by little. XMMS as a media player is not worse than pressing START when you want to shut down your computer under Windows. Laughing
_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
diskonext



Joined: Aug 26, 2004
Posts: 307
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lol,

when I started installing Linux systems, I was so convinced that there'd be nothing installed other than bare bones stuff, I looked for everything on the Internet. Usually to discover I had a working program installed already... the package installers (rpm and apt-get in my case) are great in that regard...

I still mainly use Linux as a tool for building servers, not desktops, and therefore have a huge tendency to do things "manually" as in, terminal based. Locating stuff would be "find / -name "regex_of_the_files_I_want_to_include" to search entire filesystems for any matching file, "which full_name" for any executable in one of the folders in $PATH and (s)locate "file_name" if the admin has turned this feature on and is keeping the locate-db up to date.

Really interested in the rest of your adventures, especially seeing you are going where this semi-bold man has never gone before... serious desktop use, and even making music with it.

-diskonext

_________________
:wq
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
diskonext



Joined: Aug 26, 2004
Posts: 307
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And if you are looking for a full-blown, yet light weight, X Server (and I think that you are, somehow), try out WMaker (http://www.windowmaker.org/ - but already installed, methinks, executable is called wmaker, IIRC).
It always treated me right, and had some terribly nice features, like auto-filling menu's by either a script or the contents of a directory (wildcarded, too). Yeah, go wild!

-diskonext

_________________
:wq
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
jksuperstar



Joined: Aug 20, 2004
Posts: 2492
Location: Denver
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 18

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Another Music Linux Distro (Dyne:Bolic) uses WMaker...for all of these reasons. It's very fast, lightweight, and simple to use, though extendable (all menu's are easily configured, plus I think you can pull in your own keymap very easily (in order to remap your keyboard to control your favorite app!)

(oh, maybe this feature was on the fluxbox series of windows managers. well, both are very good).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kassen
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 7678
Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

diskonext wrote:

Really interested in the rest of your adventures, especially seeing you are going where this semi-bold man has never gone before... serious desktop use, and even making music with it.


I don´t think it´s such a big step.

The box I´m still typing on basically only runs Outlook and Firefox. I need to be able to view pix people send me and listen to mp3´s. I already use the Gimp for image manipulation. Perhaps a ICQ client once a week, a hotline one once a month... I figure Linux will do that fine. I´m already used to programers text editors for writing, my current editor considders C to be a language as badly in need of spell-checking as Dutch or Finnish.... The PS2 and the N64 play all the games I could wish for, I buy those second hand or cheap and have more then I have time for. As for music; it doesn´t need to do it all, I´m quite happy with XP on the laptop, I just long for some more exotic, more "accedemic" play things. I may be the most cerebral of my crew, but even I don´t considder coding for a weekend, then slamming "render" to be rock&roll.

I don´t think it´s such a huge leap at all, currently the weather is a larger problem then ease of use in this transition.....


JKS, I already love fluxbox, it´s lean and fast, I just have little idea what all those beautifull programs are....

_________________
Kassen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Afro88



Joined: Jun 20, 2004
Posts: 701
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Audio files: 12
G2 patch files: 79

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
So far everything seems installed properly and working fine, it´s just that I have a menu of all the stuff installed and it´s all weird words and letters and stuff.

xmms sounds fine, but how am I supposed to know that the text "xmms" relates to playing files? or "Nautillus" to scanning through drives and dirs?


Exactly. Unless yours came with decent help files or something, you may want to keep a computer with the internet next to you to search for all those programs in your menu, see what they do. As for man pages... *shudder* If there's another collection of help files out there that is better structured but contains less easy to understand "help" then I haven't seen it. "man" is the command to get help for anything that is supposed to be run from command line. Just type "man ls" or whatever command you want.

Quote:
I think it´s a great system, realy easy to setup and it comes with lots and lots of free stuff, my problem is just that I have no idea what free stuff is where. Perhaps I should edicate tomorow evening to looking at the help-files that came with it.

I didn´t have to compile anything yet either, if that was your problem then perhaps it´s time to give demudi another look because this seems very much aimed at the sort of person who does not enjoy compiling obscure code.


Yeah, back then I wasn't supposed to compile anything, but alot of the programs rpm's were broken, so I had to resort to compiling to try some stuff out. It's better than it sounds, most have scripts to do it for you, you just have to type "./configure" and then "make" then "make install". It's only when some random error pops up during the make process, or configure says you don't have libqt when you in fact do that you start pulling your hair out and try to read obscure help files to figure out what went wrong. I've probably got a bit more time and patience for those things these days though... but from the sound of it, the current demudi is exactly what I was looking for back then. Might give it another shot over the holidays
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: jksuperstar
Page 1 of 1 [20 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Linux as a music workstation
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use