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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » NM Classic (NM1 or G1)
NM Classic Trade-In Offer
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cebec



Joined: Apr 19, 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Twisted Evil

Let's all hold onto/buy up the 'secondhand' NM Classics so Clavia can't have 'em!! We'll hold 'em hostage and demand a higher ransom!

I'd love to have my NM KB back, but I might settle for a rack or micro in the near future. One of the biggest selling points for the old rack should be some pics of Roland jamming with his at em2005!
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

One of the bigest selling points is also that it fits in a backpack, at least it fits in the nice 70´s hiking backpack that Rob gave to me, with room to spare for a analogue delay! That´s a big deal to me.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I commend Clavia for making this offer and I'm grateful and honored that they associated it with electro-muisc 2005.

If this offer motivates just a few people to "upgrade" I think it is a good thing. The NM1 is a great machine; I loved mine. When I got my G2 I gave my NM1 to a good friend. I have no regrets. The G2 is superior in almost every respect.

Now if Moog would only offer a $500 trade in for my old Moog Modular, I might think about a Voyager. Laughing

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh, yes, we can hardly complain about options... I just can´t get rid of it, I could never fithat triangular top space of my little rack again. Well, a Sherman filterbank might fit but that´s not realy my thing, sound-wise....

I think you will find many people willing to give you 500 for your Moog, if that´s what you want....

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

500 USD for a Moog. Hmm.. even my wife might find that to be an important investment. Hmm.. and she is always patching around on the NM-1 when I am not looking.. But I leave the webcam on.. . so I know what she is doing..
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Actually, the only thing Howard is missing right now is a fair supply of level adapters for the Moog. You know.. signal adapaters so you can patch the signal to outboard or into the G-2 and back to the Moog. Hmm.. and some midi->CV kits.
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
500 USD for a Moog. Hmm.. even my wife might find that to be an important investment. Hmm.. and she is always patching around on the NM-1 when I am not looking.. But I leave the webcam on.. . so I know what she is doing..


You are just making it all up to make everybody envious, aren´t you?

You expect us to believe your imaginary wife accepts server rooms, your hours (which personally I can´t distinguish from my own and those are deeply into hacker/mad scientist teritory) *and* she patches on the nord?

Right.

:¬p

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes! And she even plays on some of my tracks.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I need more emoticons.
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Kassen
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

More emoticons?
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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Try these:

love love love angel

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, no. Charming as she is, I can´t go off posting hearts about Stein´s girl, that would be wrong.

No, I meant I need a emoticon that in one big swoop compliments mr. Elektro but that also strongly hints of the phrase "sure, and she´s beautifull too, right, you just downloaded some stock art to lend credibility to your fantasy", in a teasing manner.

Mosc, that blue angel looks like some kind of candy that will make you realy sick if you eat too much of it.

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mosc
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I only eat sugar-free candy, but it will get you just as sick if you eat too much of it. Crying or Very sad
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GovernorSilver



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just got email confirmation from Clavia: Micromodulars do NOT qualify for this offer.
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3phase



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
One of the bigest selling points is also that it fits in a backpack, at least it fits in the nice 70´s hiking backpack that Rob gave to me, with room to spare for a analogue delay! That´s a big deal to me.


true..the nord modular rack version is within bord bagage measurements...you can take it in the cabin without discussions ...
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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3phase wrote:
Kassen wrote:
One of the bigest selling points is also that it fits in a backpack, at least it fits in the nice 70´s hiking backpack that Rob gave to me, with room to spare for a analogue delay! That´s a big deal to me.


true..the nord modular rack version is within bord bagage measurements...you can take it in the cabin without discussions ...


But you must turn it off during takeoff and landing...
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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

MusicalGirevik wrote:
Just got email confirmation from Clavia: Micromodulars do NOT qualify for this offer.


A micro doesn't even qualify for a Holodeck program of a G2...
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3phase wrote:

Yep...but officially i never was on ...shithead records...so pssst...


Hmmmm, Nova Mute did release some realy nice stuff, I on the other hand got F-ed over by Tresor once. On a gig though, not a release.

Quote:
I think i know what you reffering about the DAC´s...maybe its them...but when listening to a plain saw osc the NM1 and G2 sound much closer ( you only hear the DCA difference IMO ) than with more complex patches... so there is something more about the difference in sound than just DAC´s...


Could be the infamous 16bit delay stuff or some rounding error problem in the filters used? Does anybody know wether the filter algorithems are actually the same? This would explain some things; Rob´s patches don´t suffer from the problem nearly as much and he builds his own filters based on a system that my little book on DSP claims is more suitable for integer math. I´m a little out of my depth here but then again, so is nearly everybody, filter design is realy a black art.


Quote:

regarding the new things... sorry i forget about all this logic and switch modules that allowed me to realise certain things that wasnt possible on the NM1. And the performance mode... Not to underestimate this one...
Sysex safeing inside the sequencer...Named knobs ( except the bloody source tag...), Variations... There is quite a lot good things that forced me towards the G2... and i hope that the future will bring even more plus points...


I´m in complete agreement here, I realy like the shift-registers, clocked delays and so on. Sadly heavy use of logic quickly burns through the zero page.

Quote:

And now even the midi out ability of the G2 is interesting for me..i never carred about this one so much..but... its another story with a NM1...You can make the NM1 benefit from the G2´s performancemode via midi...
I enjoy to have booth.


Excelent point, though of cource some midi sequencer abuse could acomplish the same. You could store variations for the NM in Ableton clips made up of lots and lots of cc´s, then midi merge.



Quote:

BTW: I asked on the list for people that done multiplexing between VA and FX area... Somebody mentioned your name..
Did you had some results ?


I´m not aware of what that might be refering too, most of my work on the G2 involved mutated forms of KS, I actually implemented a improvement Rob cooked up back in 83 on the G2 with some very interesting results, that was mostly monophonic though.

I did curse loudly at the polyphony implementation once or twice, but mostly with regard to bussing between paralel VA areas which is realy, realy hard. Multiplexing is usefull there, to some degree, but bandwith is a issue, as is the fact that "voice number" (from the status module) is technologically interesting but most of the time not that musically meaningfull. I did spend a fair amount of time thinking about this so if you are after anything in speciffic I may be able to help? As long as four voices are enough a lot can be done with the busses using some quite classical techniques borowed from modems, after that it gets a lot harder.

I could imagine these things to become very usefull in patches aimed at surround mixing though. Just shoot and we´ll see how far I can help you.

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paul e.



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OT....


kassen what kind of analogue delay are you using....

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Boss DM-100, mostly, sometimes backed by a (tweaked) ADR-systems CS-100. In the studio I also use a Ibanez UE-405 but that one is way too large to travel with.

I´m realy into bucket brigades, fortunately some new ones are being made again these days and so I may get a fourth one some time.....

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ian-s



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have a theory about why the G2 and Classic NM sound different, apart from the obvious lift in quality between 48k and 96k.
Early G2 documentation referred to more complex anti aliasing algorithms as one reason for not getting a bigger increase in dsp resources over the classic.
Now I could be wrong, but this may be the primary reason for the difference in sound character. If it made no difference, Clavia would have just stuck with the more efficient classic anti aliasing no?
There was an awful lot of complaining in the pre G2 NM community about the ‘buzzy’ sound, this must have driven Clavia to try much harder second time round.
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wait, you are saying the G2 would have *less* aliassing? I´m not sure I believe that, it certainly doesn´t match with how I hear it. I don´t think the new algorithems could cost that much cpu time since the clock speed didn´t go up that dramatically. The increased sample rate should eat most of that increase but we get a little back on the increased efficiency (at the expense of "live patching").

I wouldn´t be surprised if the samplerate increase was actually supposed to take care of much of the aliassing. This is actually a tactic many manifacturers are trying to use and IMHO no substitute for better algorithems but it´s certainly far easier to implement. This is of cource pure speculation on my part but other companies do this too so it´s not entirely rediculous.

It´s anoying that Clavia is so quiet about this.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I can’t remember where I read that, might have been an early review. Doubling the sample rate should lift the threshold of aliasing by an octave, maybe you are right and nothing else has changed except the way sync works now. Does the G2 demo sound closer to the classic through a non champagne DAC @ 48K?
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That´s a good question, frankly I didn´t test that yet but I will soon. Best would of cource be testing it at 96 too to avoid concluding anything based on the extra conversion with extra anti aliassing.

Perhaps that´s a good experiment to hold on monday when I´ll vist Rob and we can A-B it with a G2. I´m not so sure on how to do some objective testing of 3phase´s theory considering more elaborate patches.

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
I´m not so sure on how to do some objective testing of 3phase´s theory considering more elaborate patches.


What do you mean, you just said you'd be going to Rob ;-)

Jan.
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