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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » G2 FAQ
Modular G2 NRPN Output
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toneburst



Joined: Apr 13, 2005
Posts: 17
Location: London UK

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:31 am    Post subject: Modular G2 NRPN Output Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

quick question:
anyone know if it's possible to output NRPN values from the MIDI out of a Nord Modular G2 Engine? I have a synth that responds to NRPNs, but not CCs, and was wondering if there was a way I could control it via the G2.

a|x
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jksuperstar



Joined: Aug 20, 2004
Posts: 2503
Location: Denver
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes! I'm at work, so I can't post a patch. But if you look up the constructs of an NRPN, it's just 4 CC msgs sent back-to-back. 2 for address, and 2 for data. Just link together 4 CC-send modules.

For starters, read this:
http://www.philrees.co.uk/nrpnq.htm
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toneburst



Joined: Apr 13, 2005
Posts: 17
Location: London UK

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi there,

thanks for getting back to me!
Wouldn't the messages need to be sent in the right order though? Not sure how you'd make sure this happened. Maybe you've done it though...

I'd love to see a patch, if you have.


Cheers,

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Blue Hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
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Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

toneburst wrote:
Wouldn't the messages need to be sent in the right order though? Not sure how you'd make sure this happened.


You can chain the CC send modules using the two leftmost connectors, I think the help explains it. Additionally you might want to add one or two sample and holds to make sure no data is sent unless the first change input gets triggered, or build a change detector that triggers the whole lot.

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toneburst



Joined: Apr 13, 2005
Posts: 17
Location: London UK

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah, thanks for the tips. I will try this as soon as I get a chance.
Thanks again,

a|x
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gauthier



Joined: Sep 19, 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I wonder if there is a building block which has been shared regarding sending NRPNs, I've found a patch which seems to receive those but not for sending (http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?highlight=nrpn&t=9977).

Also, if there are ways to scale back a single 0-127 constant to an arbitrary "more than 7 bit" range that will be a nice complement.
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Electromagnetic Wave



Joined: Apr 28, 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Salut gauthier!

Quote:
but not for sending

I think this topic can help you :

http://www.electro-music.com/forum/topic-53997-0
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gauthier



Joined: Sep 19, 2016
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello, thanks I didn't find this post!

I've tried it, it seems to be seemingly correct, but I haven't figured the range yet.

I'm trying this with Andromeda filter, and it requires values from 0 to 31 for CC6 (coarse) and 0 to 127 for CC38 (fine, I've added a module for that one), nor I've had success to hear proper sweep (even coarse) so far.

It seems at times the CC won't be sent in good order or consistently also.

I'll need more experimentation but this seems so close... Maybe I just need to do it with a small program on my computer instead but this is a bit cumbersome if the G2 can do it.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You can control the order things are sent in by chaining the send in and outputs.
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gauthier



Joined: Sep 19, 2016
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mmh I'm getting weird midi things through ableton live, somehow it doesn't route those controller changes despite activity shown correctly and midi notes going through, looking further, ableton is so retarded that it does only let the CC6 through but blocks 99, 98 & 38 altogether.

When I patch my G2 midi out directly without the PC, via midi patcher it does send correct changes

[00019918] a6 channel ControllerChange (channel:0) 99 19
[00019926] a6 channel ControllerChange (channel:0) 98 0
[00019926] a6 channel ControllerChange (channel:0) 6 0
[00019926] a6 channel ControllerChange (channel:0) 38 31

[01233832] g2x channel ControllerChange (channel:0) 99 19
[01233832] g2x channel ControllerChange (channel:0) 98 0
[01233832] g2x channel ControllerChange (channel:0) 6 2
[01233832] g2x channel ControllerChange (channel:0) 38 0

I'm still noticing those problems:

* sometimes the value sent get mixed up, it can be sending only the 99CC or the 6CC, or some random pairs
* I'm not able to figure out the range thing, it seems the A6 wants 12bit resolution


nrpng2.png
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nrpng2.png


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Electromagnetic Wave



Joined: Apr 28, 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

From Tim Kleinert :
Quote:
The problem in the NRPN scenario is that the first two CC messages of the NRPN protocol do not change. So, one has to detect a change in the value to be sent and use this to trigger the sending of the entire NRPN string.

http://www.electro-music.com/forum/post-393441.html#393441

Did you tried the patch from Sinuosity or Tim Kleinert ?
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gauthier



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Electromagnetic Wave, yes I've changed Tim's patch as shown in the picture.

It does send the 4 CC, albeit sometimes not properly as it kind of trips up (noticed especially when decreasing the value) and I'm not able to figure out how to do scalling to have something smooth happening.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Random transmit orders could be caused by (from the module help) :

Quote:
• Note that as soon as the Value changes, either by manually turning the knob or by inputting a changing control signal, the module will output MIDI data even if the logic Send input is not activated.



So you'll need to sync changes there ... hairy stuff Confused

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