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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
VCO for Lunetta: CD4046 vs the 555 chip
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sndbyte



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:43 am    Post subject: VCO for Lunetta: CD4046 vs the 555 chip Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I want to build a VCO for my Lunetta board now. I have both the CD4046 chip and a 555 chip.

I was wondering which would be best to add. I'm running all of my chips at 5v (with the exception of a WSG filter at 9v).

The VCO will be used when I add a 4017 sequencer later.

Any suggestions as to which chip I should use? I was planning on having just one VCO on this board.

thanks!
Chris
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tjookum



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have the 4046 on my breadboard and it works very well, good range and minimal components make it an unbeatable combination for me. If you want to use a 555 I would suggest using the CMOS 7555 wich has a lower power consumption.
Another great simple solution is the YAVO:[url] http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?highlight=yavco&t=33937
[/url]

another option if you just want to use the sequencer to gate signals:
http://deathlehem.com/php/download/file.php?id=521&mode=view
This way you can plug in any signal and gate it according to the programmed sequences.

Personally I dont like VCO's in lunetta, and only use mine in combination with the triangle lfo or r2r. A big part of the fun of lunetta's for me is flexibility and a open mindset to music, why have a VCO when you can experiment with gates, shift registers and all kinds of mayhem?
[/url]

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fluxmonkey



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fluxmonkey wrote:
technically, the 4046 oscillator as usually built is an "RCO"--resistance controlled oscillator. to control it w/ a voltage, you have to replace the timing resistor w/ some kind of voltage-to-resistance widget, like a vactrol. the 555 family can be directly controlled by a voltage...


apologies, i mis-spoke... 4046 PLL obviously can be used as a VCO I'm sorry

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Last edited by fluxmonkey on Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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richardc64



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tjookum wrote:
Personally I dont like VCO's in lunetta, and only use mine in combination with the triangle lfo or r2r. A big part of the fun of lunetta's for me is flexibility and a open mindset to music, why have a VCO when you can experiment with gates, shift registers and all kinds of mayhem?


That's what I tried to say at that other forum. I'll try to stir up that kettle again when things have settled down over there.

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richardc64



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fluxmonkey wrote:
technically, the 4046 oscillator as usually built is an "RCO"--resistance controlled oscillator. to control it w/ a voltage, you have to replace the timing resistor w/ some kind of voltage-to-resistance widget, like a vactrol. the 555 family can be directly controlled by a voltage...


Another method is found in Thomas Henry's X-4046 VCO or the Mega Percussive Synth, both of which can be found here http://electro-music.com/forum/forum-148.html or with more info at Scott Stite's http://www.birthofasynth.com/Thomas_Henry/TH_main.html. Definitely not in the so-called "Lunetta Spirit."

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DGTom



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The 4046 is a VCO. Its linear, but it works with a +ve voltage on pin 9. Another good referance;

http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs31_digital_noise.html

The timing resistors set the range.

The X-4046 is a really cool approach, because trying to bootstrap the CV input into something sensible is nigh on impossible.


Why have gates & shift registers if you can't experiment with modulating the speed of the clocks driving them? working with fixed clocks (manually variable) & even divisions all the time doesn't seem very flexiable or open minded to me Wink
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tjookum



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Why have gates & shift registers if you can't experiment with modulating the speed of the clocks driving them? working with fixed clocks (manually variable) & even divisions all the time doesn't seem very flexiable or open minded to me Wink


Ok ok, there are uses for them and like I said especially analog signals can be a nice change from the squares. But modulating the speed of the clock can be sort of done with a nand gate and another slower clock, or a 4053 or a 4066 switch. Im just saying that the concept of a modular system containing VCO,VCF,VCA's is not what youre looking for in a lunetta.

But...If it works for you, go for it! Having fun, building and making music is all that really matters

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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I myself enjoy the contrast between gradually changing pitches as opposed to immediately changing pitches. There, I have no troubles using VCOs in my noise machines. The 'restriction' that I stay away from, is the pre-determined amount of scaling FOR the pitches. Heck with that. Everything that I'm making on my noise machines is in the Key of Naught. Very Happy
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Draal



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

richardc64 wrote:
tjookum wrote:
Personally I dont like VCO's in lunetta, and only use mine in combination with the triangle lfo or r2r. A big part of the fun of lunetta's for me is flexibility and a open mindset to music, why have a VCO when you can experiment with gates, shift registers and all kinds of mayhem?


That's what I tried to say at that other forum. I'll try to stir up that kettle again when things have settled down over there.


I hear ya both! Laughing

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DGTom



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Its abit of a non-argument... work in whichever way suits you & the sounds you make; which for me is primarily Voltage Controlled.

tjookum wrote:
Im just saying that the concept of a modular system containing VCO,VCF,VCA's is not what youre looking for in a lunetta.


I agree, but, thats just one concept of a modular system. I never use the "Moog Method" of subtractive synthesis... I do use ALOT of CMOS however Very Happy
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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

DGTom wrote:
Its abit of a non-argument... work in whichever way suits you & the sounds you make; which for me is primarily Voltage Controlled.

tjookum wrote:
Im just saying that the concept of a modular system containing VCO,VCF,VCA's is not what youre looking for in a lunetta.


I agree, but, thats just one concept of a modular system. I never use the "Moog Method" of subtractive synthesis... I do use ALOT of CMOS however Very Happy


I basically grew up around the 'Moog Method' with synths, since about '75, with the additive strongly thrown in later. So it's hard to separate the brain from that decades of influence.
When it comes to the CMOS side of it though - everything's wide open whether it's results hit the VCF end of things before a VCA (IF a VCA exists) or not. Smile
Modulation of just about anything tho, to me, is key. Very Happy
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jnuaury



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i do love the 4046 but my favorite uses for it go beyond lunetta-like simplicity

ray wilson has a CV mod for his WSG which works well. you of course dont need to build the WSG but you can throw a 2N5457 tranny over the timing resistor/pot in a 40106/4093 oscillator to make it a VCO... really cool

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gasboss775



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:01 pm    Post subject: Simple VCO using 4093 Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is another super simple VCO, potentially fitting the lunetta criteria:


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haebbmaster



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I recently built VCOs by Mark Shaner, at 5V
looks very similar to that by gasboss775

CV response is good, the output transistors can be omitted


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gasboss775



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

haebbmaster wrote:
I recently built VCOs by Mark Shaner, at 5V
looks very similar to that by gasboss775

CV response is good, the output transistors can be omitted


My circuit is pretty much the same idea with the addition of the 5K6 resistor to widen the output pulse, though this has the unfortunate effect of flattening the relationship between frequency and CV. This type of thing tends to be less of an issue in Lunetta setups, though.
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elektrouwe



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

gasboss775 wrote:
....the 5K6 resistor to widen the output pulse, though this has the unfortunate effect of flattening the relationship between frequency and CV.

yes, and the 2nd "unfortunate effect" is that both circuits use current drive
for the current sink transistor. For exponential ( V/oct) behavior it's important to voltage drive the transistor with a low impedance voltage divider (<= 1k to GND) for proper Vbe control.
This is done in the classic circuit which is now about half a century old.
btw: the first saw tooth oscillators that use this principle ( with neon tubes as "Schmitt-triggers" are now 100yrs. old ...
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gasboss775



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektrouwe wrote:

btw: the first saw tooth oscillators that use this principle ( with neon tubes as "Schmitt-triggers" are now 100yrs. old ...


There is a guy on Muffwiggler who has built fairly sophisticated noise makers based on neon bulb oscillators, its something I've been meaning to try out, but I need to build a high voltage power supply first ( another thing on the to do list! )
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