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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Ken Stone designs - CGS
Getting started building CGS modules [Build Thread]
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Hubaswift



Joined: Jul 06, 2016
Posts: 50
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Fixed. Since the pcb images don't seem to be 100% reliable, I'll check that everything is in accordance to the schematic on the next one. I'm probably going to do the utility envelope generator next.
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Hubaswift



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's the Dual Utility EG:


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Hubaswift



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And Here's the CV Cluster. There's some metal tabs in the middle of the pcb, which by my understanding of the notes are there in case you wish to cut the pcb in half to save space behind smaller panels.
I actually don't quite yet understand what this module does, but is sure sounds interesting!


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Hubaswift



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just got an interesting idea. I have a 9 gang 11 position rotary switch that I've been meaning to put to use. My idea is to make a 10 patch preset module where this rotary switch would be used to pre-patch the system. I'd use switched jacks so plugging in a cable overrides the pre-patch. one of the positions on the switch would have no pre-patched connections, which would make the system a normal modular one. unfortunately, the switch isn't standard and each gang has different connections and don't always have a common rail that it follows, but I'll be making a diagram to help with that. I'd imagine this being very useful for live applications to quickly switch patches, and for experimentation.
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Ayab



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hubba Bubba!! Going to have a go at the CV cluster!

Thank you Very Happy
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Hubaswift



Joined: Jul 06, 2016
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

^ You're welcome. Let me know if there's any issues with the pcb that need to be fixed.


I just finished etching and drilling 6 pcbs, 2x VCO, 2x DUSG, and 2x Dual EG. There are a few etching faults that still need to be fixed, but all in all they turned out pretty good. I'll start stuffing them today, but I don't have all the parts necessary to finish them yet.


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wackelpeter



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

you absolutely need a Minimum of 6 DUSG or VCS. Smile

Just want to chime in and tell, that i yesterday fisrt time experienced with 2 VCs as slew limiters for my sequencer for controlled glide events.

Just stick the CV of the sequencer into the Signal Input of 1 VCS adjust fall and rise to taste, and connect a trig out from the seq to the trig in of the 2and and adjust rsie and fall there too and connect it's output to the controls for rise, fall or both... can give some nice variations on the sequenced Output. Well you can also produce steady glide with 1 VCS and just the rise and fall ratio.

Well this module is endless fun and literally a dozen of application to use for.

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Hubaswift



Joined: Jul 06, 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

^ That's a neat idea, so I suppose if you have two rows of gates on/off switches on the sequencer, you'd be able to choose which steps glide, similar to a TB-303, while the other triggers a basic EG. That's pretty awesome.

The DUSG is the one module I'm looking forward to completing the most, as I've heard so much DUSG praise. I'm also curious as to how well it tracks as VCO.
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The Bad Producer



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The DUSG doesn't track so well without mods - which are quite easy to implement if you can be bothered!

Firstly make sure you match the transistors in the 'core' (I use BC550C and BC560C here FWIW) then you need to add a trimmer and a tempco (probably silly adding a tempco, but what the hell!)

I will eventually document the mod here, hopefully soon, I do keep meaning to do it!

http://www.loudestwarning.co.uk/portfolio/dusg/

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Hubaswift



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

^ Thanks, I'll try it out once I build the DUSGs. That's a nice site you have there too, beautiful builds.
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wackelpeter



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Bad Producer wrote:
The DUSG doesn't track so well without mods - which are quite easy to implement if you can be bothered!

Firstly make sure you match the transistors in the 'core' (I use BC550C and BC560C here FWIW) then you need to add a trimmer and a tempco (probably silly adding a tempco, but what the hell!)

I will eventually document the mod here, hopefully soon, I do keep meaning to do it!

http://www.loudestwarning.co.uk/portfolio/dusg/


How good does your modded versions track? I also did the trimmer and resistor in series as replacement for the 1k8 resistor at the V/oct Input but i only managed to get them tracking over 2 octaves and it significantly tracks more worse the higher the overall pitch is. Above 1kHz at ca. 1,2 or 1,6kHz it really looses on precision as far as i remember. (well i don't Play them normally with Keyboard) but i have some recordings made solely or mostly of DUSG and VCS and i find them, ahem well, mabye not adorable but tolerable, which is more relying on the case that i'm an imperfect musician. Very Happy

Maybe i will post some snippets of them, to torture your ears. Twisted Evil

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wackelpeter



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

One thing i forgot, what do you guys think of bringing the inverted EOC also to the Panel? I mean i'Ve done that on a few. It has a wider PW than the other and yeah it's the opposite, but when i'm mixing into the sound some divisions of the original Signal as sub-oscillator i find myself mostly using the inverted output for the divider, because i think it fit's better to the harmonics.
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The Bad Producer



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I can get around 3-4 octaves, I *remember* getting 5 at one point but I've swapped so many bits in and out to get there that I didn't like the overall response (range etc) so went back to the 'normal' mods - which include changing the 22NF capacitor to 10NF for 'better' operation at high speed. It is certainly better at lower frequencies...

I say 'better' and 'normal' fully in the knowledge that these are subjective, it is, after all, just a fancy EG - and everything else of course!

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The Bad Producer



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh, and thanks for the kind words about the site! I sell panels for the CGS PCB's so thought it a good idea to add a bit of support for builders!

The inverted EOC is a good idea, I was looking at that a while ago, I wondered if you could use the op-amp that buffers the bipolar out to make a comparator so you have GATE output, may require a lot of tomfoolery on the CGS PCB, I didn't get past thinking about it!

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Hubaswift



Joined: Jul 06, 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just finished populating one of the Dual Utility EG pcbs. Anyone know a source for 2.2M Sliders for this thing?

I also have some questions regarding the CGS VCOs exact functions just to be 100% sure before I make the panels, and to know how to label the front panel using terms I'm more familiar with.

What is the difference between the VC FM in, and the FREQ CV in? Is one linear and the other exponential?

What does the Sub Osc sync do? I don't see any other normal sync input.

Is the Sub Osc in there so you can run other signals through the sub osc?

and lastly, assuming that the Sub Osc Steps CV changes the Sub Osc Step knob value (correct me if I'm wrong), would it be practical to add an attenuator for that function, or redundant?


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wackelpeter



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

VC FM is lin FM and Freq CV is exp. FM... At least anything going in into the summing Input from the OP amp of the Expo converter is somehow giving an exp. FM.

Half a year i build 4 of those ASM1 VCO's on which the CGS is based and they sound great. I altered them a bit by using the Expo Converter of the Thomas Henry 4046 VCO and the Buchla exp.CV processing from the 258 VCO.

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Hubaswift



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

^ Thanks for clarifying Very Happy

I've made quite a change to my original plan. I have now decided to use banana jacks, which will follow a similar color coding system to that of buchla:
Blue: CV Outputs
Black: CV Inputs
Red: Pulse Outputs
Orange: Pulse Inputs
White: Audio inputs/outputs
I've also decided not to make it a modular (still modular in terms of patchability) but rather one large panel mounted in a briefcase. I have a large board of Walnut that's been waiting to be put to use, so I'll be building the briefcase to mount the panel out of that. I've also decided on a few different modules. The only concern I have so far, is how I'm going to print the panels. I've considered making a Paperface panel, but I'd much prefer a brushed aluminum panel with blue lettering... which will probably run me quite a few hundred.

I just finished the complete panel art for the whole synth. Here it is!


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The Bad Producer



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice idea and design Hubaswift!
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haebbmaster



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hubaswift wrote:
I don't see any other normal sync input.


the normal sync is here


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haebbmaster



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

your color system:

CV and audio are not strictly separated here. You can use a DUSG for CV and also for audio.

So I decided to use black for inputs an red for outputs

I made paperface panels, laser printed paper laminated with an office laminator. Glued to an expoxy pcb with a contact adhesive.
But the max paper format is A4, so this will be too small for your suitcase.

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Hubaswift



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

^ Yea, there are some exceptions with the color coding system. Another instance is on the Serge Noise module, where one of the jacks serves as both the trigger input and output. I may pick a different color to use on specifically "hybrid" functions, but I'm still unsure. I'll buy some extra jacks of each color and mess around a bit with different configurations once I figure out how I'm going to go about the panel.

Another idea for panels, is that I could check if a local print shop could print an adhesive vinyl sticker. Hopefully they would be able to do larger prints than A4.
I'm also going to ask Julian (on Muff Wiggler) if he can make panels from autocad files (it's the only cad software I can use). I remember him saying that he can only do brushed aluminum panels with 1.5mm thickness, Which would be too thin for such a large panel. I'm currently making separate graphics-only and drill holes only panels on cad, so I'll send those to him once I'm done and see if it's something he could do, and if it's something I could afford.

Anyways, Thanks for the feedback!
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Hubaswift



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I made two Dual Utility Eg pcbs a while ago, but ended up only including one in the briefcase synth, so today I put one of the pcbs behind a MU panel in my MU modular. I also perf-boarded a Utility LFO. Both worked great right away without any fiddidling. I used 1M pots instead of 2M2 on the EGs, so I'm going to put some larger value timing capacitors in them to get more range, maybe add a switch. great Eg. The Utility LFO is pretty awesome too, just lacking a cv in.

I've been talking to the guy I mentioned (Julian) about the brushed aluminum, blue infill panel, and it looks like it's going to go through, so I'll have one great looking panel Razz

Here's a photo of the two CGS modules in my MU Modular. Not very pretty... Eventually I'll bother to learn how to silk-screen and make some pretty panels.


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