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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » WREN
Driver / Stuttering
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blackout5



Joined: Feb 01, 2013
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:46 am    Post subject: Driver / Stuttering Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello,

First I'd like to say kudos on putting so much effort into this sweet modular freeware. I've been making tracks on the G2 Demo and this seems like it's miles better, excited to make the transition.
Although unfortunately I am unable to get it working. I read your stuttering explanation under FAQ and I just can't figure it out.

I am using Windows 10 64, and my hardware consists of a Motu PCI 424 card that is connected to a 1999 audio interface Motu 2408 mk2. Sample rate running at 48k, usually buffer is set to 512, and the driver I have selected in my DAWs is 'Motu PCI Asio'.

I also attached a photo of what options are available for me in Wren. What could I be overlooking?


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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi blackout5,

I see that in the device selector you are only getting the legacy devices and not the port audio ones.

Assuming that you downloaded the wren zip file and have the port audio DLL in the same folder as the wren executable ... it then seems to be the case that the port audio DLL gives errors on startup.

Wren makes a logfile, there may be clues in it, maybe you can post it here? This would be "wren.log" and it is located in the wren folder.

What I've heard about is that on Win10 the port audio DLL is not working well with some of the on board audio devices. I've never had this issue myself though so not quite sure how to fix this ... well probably I'd have to supply a new DLL .. but maybe (just some stuff I would try myself, but never heard about anyone actually trying) it would be possible to:

a) disable the onboard sound devices in the device manager.

or b) Use a port audio DLL obtained from somewhere else

EDIT: things could still work with the legacy devices, but you would need a far greater buffer size than 512 then.

The device selector when using ASIO should look something like :

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Windows_10_OS#No_audio_devices_found._Internal_PortAudio_error

might give some ideas about how to deal with the issue, especially the bits on 'obtaining windows 10 drivers'.

For pre-built versions of the PortAudio DLL .. maybe look at : https://github.com/spatialaudio/portaudio-binaries

You would have to rename the DLL to portaudio.dll

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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blackout5



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Actually the Port Audio tab did exist up until I uninstalled FL Studio ASIO, I did not uninstall FL Studio itself.

I also have a laptop with Windows 10 and a M-Audio 410 Firewire interface. When running Wren I was experiencing the same stuttering. I then uninstalled FL Studio and FL Studio ASIO altogether and the stuttering had disappeared. Although I wasn't able to repeat this reaction. I wanted to know if it was FL Studio or FL Studio ASIO that was causing the trouble and after installing both, the stuttering had returned, although stuttering persisted after uninstalling both applications again. I even tried to reboot without the audio interface but this didn't help and the Port Audio tab was still unavailable. I don't remember if Port Audio tab existed without the stutter.

I tried Wren on a 3rd Windows 10 PC that has never had any DAW's installed. Wren worked without issues and Windows DirectSound selected in Port Audio.

Returning to my initial PC with the Motu interface, I tried your binary advice. 'libportaudio32bit.dll' had stuttering and the log was identical with your DLL, and when I tried 'libportaudio64bit.dll' there was still stuttering but the Port Audio tab had returned and the log had errors.
Also another thing to note, in all cases if the Port Audio tab was present with stuttering, none of the drop boxes had any options and the Asio Panel button doesn't do anything. I attached a screenshot of how this looks like along with the logs.

Audacity works as expected.

Just a guess, I don't think it's Windows 10, or the DLL itself, perhaps there is some conflicts between software and drivers?


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Last edited by blackout5 on Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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blackout5



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah! Hahaha... so up until now I have been installing Wren from the executable.

There is no issues with Wren from the ZIP. Everything is ok! Embarassed

Last edited by blackout5 on Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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blackout5



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Now when I attempt to change Windows DirectSound to MOTU PCI ASIO -or- ASIO4ALL, Wren refuses to run and goes straight to this log.

[Edit]

ASIO wouldn't run because I hadn't assigned the output/input channels. Embarassed
Wren from the ZIP also works on the laptop, no problem.

So why was I having problems with the executable?


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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

With the executable you mean the wren_setup_2017.11.19.exe file?

Then apparently I made a fuckup in that one ... it was tbh a bit of an afterthought to add an automatic setup. Maybe I should remove that for now and test better for the next release.

In you screenshots I saw you used a buffer size of 4096, setting it to zero and let PortAudio decide on the actual size has been working better for me.

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Last edited by Blue Hell on Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, and from the logs I can see that the 64 bit PortAudio DLL is not being properly probed (Wren is 32 bit software, so that was to be expected).

The 32 bit one and the original one (also 32 bit) seem ok, and then it seems like legacy audio was selected and started as PortAudio was not activated.

And in the last log indeed the number of channels was zero.

Is it working OK now for you? or still having issues?

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ran a bunch of file compares with kdiff3 ( http://kdiff3.sourceforge.net/ ).

Why Wren.exe or portaudio.dll from the setup exe would differ from the ones in the zip file or differ from the ones that can be downloaded directly is beyond me ...

Both on all three locations compare as identical and the setup exe on my web site is identical to the the one generated on the development PC.

weird Confused

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blackout5



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah! Wren stopped working again for some reason! This so strange, this is on my PC with Motu setup running the zip Wren. I have made some changes on the computer since, there was a huge windows update and I reinstalled FL Studio with the ASIO drivers.
Wren is still working fine on my laptop but none of the updates were performed on it yet. I will do the updates and let you know if anything changes.

There has to be some sort of software I am installing on both machines that interferes with Wren.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok.

Ran another comparison on the files installed with the setup executable and the ones extracted from the zip file. All are identical, the setup installed two extra files needed for the uninstall, that's all.

Meanwhile, what I have been seeing here is that when I change the sample rate for my RME interface all the channels will be on different locations - this causes trouble in that I'll have to reassign the audio I/O then.

Another thing I've noticed here on win10 after a windows update is that on first start Wren will not always succeed in probing PortAudio, when I start it a 2nd time it will tho.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Actually that second statement was false, it will probe correctly (with error code 0 and the DLL version being reported OK).

But starting the stream results in an unanticipated host error, after that I can manually start the stream OK. I've tried some compatibility modes (win8 and win7) - it makes no difference.

This will only happen to me directly after a windows reboot, later Wren starts are fine.

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

blackout5 wrote:


There has to be some sort of software I am installing on both machines that interferes with Wren.


Could it be that you have another PortAudio instance running for some other software?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For finding instances of DLLs being used SysInternals process explorer can be handy.

https://process-explorer.en.softonic.com/?

From the Find menu use 'Find handle or DLL' and then try some names with port or audio in it. In the bottom view you can then see in what directory the DLL was found.

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blackout5



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey! Some very significant data here.
So updating Windows on the laptop didn't break Wren. The Port Audio tab was showing up and Windows DirectSound was selected, all is beautiful.
UNTIL...
I installed FL Studio; As soon as FL is installed Wren breaks. I installed the latest demo from their website, you don't even need to run FL Studio for it to take affect. The installation includes, FL Studio itself, FL Studio ASIO, and ASIO4ALL. As mentioned before, in Wren, Port Audio tab is available but there are no options to select in any of the drop-boxes. As soon as FL Studio ASIO is uninstalled everything is back to normal.

[edit]

But for some reason it's not the same remedy for my Desktop PC with the Motu setup. Instead of fixing the Port Audio tab, returning all the options to the drop-boxes, uninstalling FL Studio ASIO completely removes Port Audio tab.

[edit]

I think I might be missing integrated audio drivers... Embarassed

[edit]

Nope... that didn't help either. Although this lead me into another interesting problem. I am not receiving any audio from my motherboards audio jacks, even with the correct device selected in Windows. A lot of ground noise though.

I have not been consistently checking the processes with the different installations, but at the moment Wren is the only one that has such a file when it runs.

Starting to think it might be a hardware issue. Or maybe my integrated audio has some registry issues caused by VBAudio or Virtual Cable (I don't have these installed anymore). I will report back.
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blackout5



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bluehell, I want to thank you for your help with clarity and suggestions, especially along with my lack of knowledge on the topic.

I had figured it out, I don't know why it works, but it works, hopefully once and for all.

All I had to do is delete the old Wren folder and unzip a new one, it worked. Perhaps it was having a difficult time re-initializing all audio drivers and running a fresh Wren helped?

And decided to test it once again:
1. Wren Working Properly (PortAudio present with all options available)
2. Installed FL Studio 12 (including FL Studio ASIO)
3. Wren PortAudio tab options in drop-boxes no longer available, Wren is stuttering.
4. Uninstalled FL Studio ASIO.
5. Wren PortAudio options have returned, Wren functions properly.

note, I have not ran FL Studio at any time during this test.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Right .. fingers crossed then .. it seems like it sometimes works and sometimes does not for unknown reasons.
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