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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
pch2csd: call to arms
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gleb812



Joined: Feb 14, 2018
Posts: 13
Location: St.Petersburg

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:47 am    Post subject: pch2csd: call to arms
Subject description: welcome to the NM2 to Csound project
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Hello folks!

My name is Gleb and I am one of the developers of the PCH2CSD project. Our goal is to create a converter from NM2 patches to Csound code. This should provide a nice way to emulate the NM2 and to give it a new life, incl. patch to vst export and turning some existing open editor into a NM2-like modular synth.

Our project's site is https://github.com/gleb812/pch2csd
Most recent paper on the project progress is here http://csound.com/icsc2017/proceedings/ICSC2017_paper_Rogozinsky.pdf
The github directory also contains some useful info.

Briefly, so far we are able to parse the pch2 and automatically generate the csd file with the corresponding Csound models of NM2 modules. We successfully emulated couple of basic generators, filters and other modules.

Any enthusiasts are VERY WELCOME to take part in our project. Any suggestions, questions, etc are welcome too.

Kind regards,
Gleb
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ech



Joined: Feb 14, 2018
Posts: 1
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi everyone.

Another developer here. Just want to add that we are currently working on the implementation of the NMG2 modules in Csound language. After we have the most modules implemented we will build a free VST instrument that would allow you to play your patches in DAWs by dragging “pch2” files onto the instrument GUI. Moreover, you’d be ableto edit converted patches, thus adding new features and algorithms to your sound.

If you like the idea you can help the project in a number of ways:

* Writing the Csound code. We even can to help you with learning Csound a little bit.
* Analyzing the behavior of the Nord’s modules. E.g. the ADSR here is not a typical exponent, but with some quirks. Or that oscillators start at random phase on each note trigger. Reporting on these quirks will greatly help us to improve simulations.
* Spreading info about the project — that may help us to find people who can help.

We are happy to discuss everything related to this project.

Cheers.
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Blue Hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Welcome ech and Gleb, interesting project!
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Electromagnetic Wave



Joined: Apr 28, 2013
Posts: 232
Location: Kebek
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi gleb812 and ech!


I quickly explored your project in July 2017. I posted the Github link here. Then I reinterested recently, 2 weeks before the publication of the article (February 12). Are you the authors? I commented on this article in several places because I found that it lacked information.

I admire this project and your motivation! I'm happy to know that you are continuing this adventure in 2018. I noticed the lack of update on the Github link since last July.

Quote:
If you like the idea you can help the project in a number of ways:

* Writing the Csound code. We can help you with learning Csound a little bit.
* Analyzing the behavior of the Nord's modules. E.g. the ADSR is not a typical exponent, but with some quirks. Or that oscillators start at random phase on each note trigger. Reporting on these quirks will greatly help us to improve simulations.


Let me know if I can contribute. My Csound knowledge is limited at the moment, I am not too bad with python. In the past I have already studied the tool pch > pch2. AND I love my G2!


I do not know if it can help you but lately I posted 2 useful links concerning the technical details of the G2 and a topic for the module bugs and undocumented specs for each modules. I will continue to update this document.

Thank you for this post that gives an idea of the bright future of this project.
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gleb812



Joined: Feb 14, 2018
Posts: 13
Location: St.Petersburg

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Blue Hell and Wave! Thanks for your greetings.

Wave, I've sent you a PM with my contacts. I am sure there are lots of things to do, so your help is much appreciated.

If someone would like to take part, please just let me know.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great project. Very Happy
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gleb812



Joined: Feb 14, 2018
Posts: 13
Location: St.Petersburg

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi folks! Some intriguing update here!

Since Clavia has an analog part, which obviously includes some high-pass filter, the recorded waves are different comparing to demo 'digital only' recording.

Today we modeled the HP filter and here are some results for saws from OscA at -64, -46, -39 and -19 pitches, compared to corresponding from our Csound models.

I like it!


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mosc
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I read your paper and I'm psyched (a good thing).

I would be happy to help with moral support and testing. I can't code in Python or csound, but I have a PC and a Mac so I would be happy to be a tester.

I used Csound back in the 80's but don't remember a thing. When the DX-7 came out, it attracted all my energy. Then the NM1 hit and I was focused on that, and then the G2. Lately I've been consumed by iOS and all those wonderful apps.

It would be nice to eventually add new modules to your code converter and to an open source G2 editor.

I wonder how your program handles polyphony.

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gleb812



Joined: Feb 14, 2018
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Location: St.Petersburg

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:45 am    Post subject: Some OscB FM modeling results Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey people! Here are some fresh results of FM modeling through simulating OscB/OscC modules. One color is original NM2, another - our Cs model.


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Rix



Joined: Aug 08, 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm happy to say that I also joined this exciting project. It's great to use the G2 editor to create Csound patches. Over 10 years ago I was on this forum frequently with my good friend Electri-fire...
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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Welcome back Rix...

welcome

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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Some OscB FM modeling results Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

gleb812 wrote:
.Here are some fresh results of FM modeling through simulating OscB/OscC modules. One color is original NM2, another - our Cs model.


Looks good to me. We don't want to make the perfect the enemy of the good. Smile

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BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice project guys Smile

My Csound experience is limited to buying The Csound Book, putting it on the shelf and glancing at the spine every so often.

Maybe it is time to gave a read...
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klangumsetzer



Joined: Jan 23, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BobTheDog wrote:
Nice project guys Smile

My Csound experience is limited to buying The Csound Book, putting it on the shelf and glancing at the spine every so often.

Maybe it is time to gave a read...

This sounds like me! Very Happy

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gleb812



Joined: Feb 14, 2018
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Location: St.Petersburg

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:05 am    Post subject: On OscNoise Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey ppl!

Here some news from our labs! This time we got a OscNoise model. We use simple non-linear feedback filter. As it used to be, one color is Csound, another is for Clavia. Also some waveforms included.


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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's pretty close Smile
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gleb812



Joined: Feb 14, 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, Sir!

And I hope OscPM is the next candidate...

To everybody: Once again, everybody is very welcome to take part. If you feel like you want to tweak some parameters to make the models even better - you are welcome! If you can code Csound and can run at least NM2 demo - you are welcome! If you can just propose a DSP algorithm for some module, drawing it in Paint) - you are very welcome too! And even if your skills are not in the list, but you want to help - just mail us, we could find something for you! at least testing..
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gleb812



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:14 am    Post subject: More FM/PM Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Friends,

here are more modeling results for OscPM, which soon will be uploaded to our repository. Enjoy!


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Electromagnetic Wave



Joined: Apr 28, 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi gleb812!

Nice! Excelent results !

I'm a bit busy actualy. But I follow all updates. I will take more time to test and work on the project soon.

Big respect to you, your team and all the others who join the project!
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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yep very good results. Busy here as well, I need to look at the book!
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gleb812



Joined: Feb 14, 2018
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:56 am    Post subject: Filters... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi folks!

What about reversing some filters? Not the top ones for this type, but nevertheless worth doing.

Today we have FltMulti, FltStatic & Wah-Wah. All seem to be pretty well modeled by Csound's statevar filter, which is in turn a digital implementation of an analogue state-variable filter.

The first series of pictures is from FltMulti/FltStatic in 12 dB mode, without GC.

The second series is Wah-Wah. Just a BP, but with gain and Q changing across the freq range + some small static high shelf around 17k+.

Cheers,
G


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mosc
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Looks good to me. It doesn't have to sound exactly like a G2, just close enough.
Smile

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gleb812



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:59 am    Post subject: Decay Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi folks!

Today we have a math model of NM2 exponential envelope.
On the pictures below the green signal is an original enveloped noise from DrumSynth, and the red envelope is our envelope model.

The function we use is
Env = exp(-4.7 * x / DecayTime)

More interesting things to come later....


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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Looking good again.

May I ask what tools you use?

I downloaded CSound and and CSoundQT on my Mac to start having a look at it and basically it doesn't work well at all.

CSoundQT has trouble staying running for more than a couple of minutes before it crashes or hangs and needs killing.

CSound itself seems to have some serious problems with my audio (Apollo Duo) when using AUHal so is unusable, using PortAudio it sort of works as long as you use a large buffer of 2048.

I'm guessing it is best not to use a mac?
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gleb812



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi, Dog!

Do you plan to do some basic Csound introductory tasks? Or you wanna dig straight into the pch2csd?

Considering the first - even if everything is bad, you can just render you code offline and open it somewhere. You can also use Cabbage Audio as a code editor, probably it will be more stable. Or you can go for terminal. Btw, did you try a normal coreaudio driver? Also, you can people at csound forum, typically they are very apt in answering.
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