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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » The layout factory
Ian Fritz Chaos Gen Stripboard Layout - Standalone Rungler
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artilect99



Joined: Oct 01, 2018
Posts: 36
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:56 pm    Post subject: Ian Fritz Chaos Gen Stripboard Layout - Standalone Rungler Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi all,
I'm new to laying out stripboards, and I wanted to do something simple, so along with the magic smoke 8k LFO I attempted this circuit, which is the voltage source from Ian Fritz' Super Sample & Hold.

I haven't built this one yet, but I thought I'd post my layout here and see if any of you stripboard gurus notice anything glaringly and embarrassingly wrong with it! Shocked It's literally my 2nd layout ever, so I would be shocked if it didn't.

Below is the layout and the original schematic.


Chaos Generator.png
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original schematic
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Chaos Generator.png



IF Chaos Gen (S-SH) v2.png
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stripboard layout
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IF Chaos Gen (S-SH) v2.png



Last edited by artilect99 on Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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artilect99



Joined: Oct 01, 2018
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Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hm, I take it by the lack of reply that my stripboarding skills are beyond reproach! Cool This is glad news indeed!

just kidding, I will build it out and see if it works. If there are problems I'll update it accordingly, just in case anyone else wants to build this. Personally I was excited by this circuit, seems like a simple, low-overhead way to add a random voltage without the need for a drive signal. Maybe it is too similar to white noise to be of much use in practice? We shall see...
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artilect99



Joined: Oct 01, 2018
Posts: 36
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's an attempt at a standalone Rungler. Thought I'd post it here rather than start a new thread... any corrections would be much appreciated. (I'm sure there's a way to do it in a lot less board space, but right now I just want to get it working.) Subbed a 4094 IC so it can run off +12v.


rungler_crop1.png
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original schematic
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rungler_crop1.png



Rungler Standalone LM358.png
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Rungler Standalone LM358.png



Last edited by artilect99 on Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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gabbagabi



Joined: Nov 29, 2008
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Location: Berlin by n8
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

u need to forgive the forum members for not responding,
controlling stripboard designs that u not have done urself is not the most enjoy-able activity Smile
eventhought ur design looking quite clear.
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elmegil



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Your Rungler is going to blow up.

In the original circuit the rails are +9 and -9, and the 4021 is powered from +9 to -9.


While you're running your 4094 off of 0 -> 12V so it won't have a problem there, you're running your op amp at +/-12V and that will fry the data in on the 4094 when it's low.

You *should* be able to get away with using a single-supply op amp instead of the TL072 (it will *not* work without a balanced supply). I'm not having any luck finding single op amps with single supply (I know they exist, but I can't remember, and my datasheets will take a long time to sift through), but you could use an LM358 for example and just ground the inputs of the second amp.
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artilect99



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

g.gabba wrote:
controlling stripboard designs that u not have done urself is not the most enjoy-able activity Smile


For sure. I was just putting them up to get a second set of eyes, in case there was anything immediately apparent that was obviously wrong -- such as

elmegil wrote:
Your Rungler is going to blow up.


Shocked Shocked

good catch elmegil. I see input voltages are supposed to be between -0.5v and supply +0.5v. Could I use a diode rectifier or a similar scheme to kill the negative half of the waveform?
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elmegil



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

artilect99 wrote:
elmegil wrote:
Your Rungler is going to blow up.


Shocked Shocked

good catch elmegil. I see input voltages are supposed to be between -0.5v and supply +0.5v. Could I use a diode rectifier or a similar scheme to kill the negative half of the waveform?


Not sure..... That sounds reasonable, but I don't know for certain, I haven't done that kind of trickiness much.
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artilect99



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Am I understanding correctly that the problem is the TL072 is going to be ouptutting a negative voltage in it's "low" state instead of 0v?

In that case I was thinking something like this:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
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elmegil



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Correct in concept, however, it's usually not just that simple.

For one example, going forward through the diode, you will lose 1 diode drop. That *should* be fine, but may not be. CMOS chips like the high value to be very close to the + rail.

For another, when you're reversed and the diode is cut off, there is not actually a "ground" signal at the input of the 4094, so that also may not work, or worse, only work intermittently. I'd consider putting a 10K to ground on that side of the diode.

But this is all just GENERAL advice, I have not tested any of it nor do I have specific expertise addressing -V into chips that can't tolerate -V.
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artilect99



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Using LM358 for the op-amp seems like the easiest way then... good call!

Should the strobe pin 1 be tied high?
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elmegil



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You'll still need to address the possibility of a negative going input, but it won't be as difficult with an op amp Smile There are examples of this with op amp inputs available in schematics for things like the Orgone Accumulator which is open source.

As for strobe, that's how I would read the verbiage at the start, but the timing diagram is confusing me. You'll need to look at that more, or maybe just use the 4021 like the original.
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artilect99



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm a little unclear as to how the original circuit deals with negative going inputs?

for what its worth I'm not trying to make a commercial product, I just need it to work in my own setup, so if that comes with some caveats like "dont send it bipolar LFOs or you will fry it" thats fine.
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artilect99



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's one for Stereoping's Scaler/Offset utility module.


Stereoping_DIY_CV_Offset_Scaler_schematic.jpg
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Stereoping_DIY_CV_Offset_Scaler_schematic.jpg



ScalerOffset v3.jpg
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ScalerOffset v3.jpg


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artilect99



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

w/r/t the Rungler, here is how the data input works on Andrew F's 8-bit cipher. (Think I'm going to just build that, since it does everything I would want from a standalone Rungler!) But looks like a similar scheme could be employed on the standalone rungler using a CD4094.

(the inverting op-amp inputs are also tied to ground via a 10k resistor, that part was cut off.)


8bit cipher data input.jpg
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NLC 8-bit cipher data input scheme
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8bit cipher data input.jpg


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