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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Kyma
Capybara 320 running "Out of Real Time"...
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paugui



Joined: Jun 28, 2008
Posts: 498
Location: Marinha Grande, Portugal / Oslo, Norway
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:37 am    Post subject: Capybara 320 running "Out of Real Time"... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Some months ago I received my Capybara 320 back from the studio.
I have it for few years now, but since I have been away from the studio for a while, I haven’t been able to learn as much about Kyma as I wanted, but have been trying to catch up lately!

There is still a lot I need to learn, but it feels great to already be able to create nice complex sounds!

However, there is one issue that has really ruined the joy for me so many times, the infamous “Out of Realtime” warning…

The most frustrating part for me is that my Capybara 320 is fully expanded in terms of DSPs (just lacking the extra I/O expansion, which I actually would love to get sooner or later…), so when I see that warning, in most cases, there is plenty of DSP power available, but for some reason, it drains most of the power from a single or few DSPs…

I guess this isn’t really that much of a problem for users of the Paca and Pacarana, since each processor available is much more powerful, but with my Capybara 320, that has been a constant, which has definitely put serious constraints in my creativity while programming new sounds…

So I am wondering, what do you usually do to fix this problem?

Any help would be really appreciated!
And since I’m still a newbie, don’t hesitate in suggesting simple solutions as I probably am just not aware of them…

Thanks in advance,
Best regards,
Paulo
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robsol
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Your fully expanded Capy actually has more DSP horsepower than my Paca. Wink

Anyway, try to use a Forced Processor Assignment prototype on one or more of your branches in your patch to spread the load more evenly. I have had to do that even with my two-processor Paca from time to time, as Kyma doesn't always know how to do it on its own.

As with scripting modules/sounds, these work on the sounds that are on their inputs, to the left of them. With complex patches it gets fuzzy though, and I am sitting here wondering what a Forced Processor into another would do...

If you are using memory writers you may also have to check Global to ensure that other processors know that they exist.

Have fun!

Rob

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paugui



Joined: Jun 28, 2008
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Location: Marinha Grande, Portugal / Oslo, Norway
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G2 patch files: 37

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the quick reply Rob! Very Happy

Is there any chance you could post a quick example on how to do that efficiently, just to be sure I won't be doing a mistake? Smile

You just have no idea how frustrating this has been...
Constantly Kyma seems to drain most of the power from a single or very small amount of processors, to a point that I end up only benefitting from the extra DSPs when I create a polyphonic sound and raise the polyphony... Sad

It really doesn't seem to use the power of the DSPs in a very efficient way...
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robsol
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't think that the Capybara 320 is compatible with Kyma 7? Also, how you use them (click ctrl/cmd + B and search for ForcedProcessorAssignment) will be different for each patch. There is a parameter field where you can put in a number for which processor you want to use. In principle it's simple but when you start considering what you need to know about DSP processes it gets complicated quickly...

You'll probably get better answers on the Kyma Q&A forum too: https://kyma.symbolicsound.com/qa/

I agree that Kyma can be frustrating and backwards sometimes. You're not the only one to think that. Evil or Very Mad

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paugui



Joined: Jun 28, 2008
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Location: Marinha Grande, Portugal / Oslo, Norway
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G2 patch files: 37

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yep, unfortunately the Capybara 320 doesn't work with Kyma 7... Sad

For me it's not really a problem to be stuck with Kyma X, as it can still do pretty amazing things!
But in terms of support it's definitely not as nice...

I think I'll try to check better how to use the Questions and Answers page you pointed out, but I have the feeling that one is just for Kyma 7 users...
The one I used when I got it, the old Kyma 5 forum, is now completely dead...

And the issue I am having, I think most likely plagues more users with Capybaras than with newer hardware, so it would be nicer to actually connect with users that are still stuck with Kyma X as well...


Anyway, I tried to use the Forced Processor Modules and it fixed a basic stereo Chorus / Flanger patch I was doing, that wouldn't run otherwise!

I only had to assign one channel to one processor and the other channel to another.
However, if I add cross feedback, it complains that it tries to access a wavetable before it is written, but I guess that's just a problem right when the sound is compiled, cause afterwards it seems to work fine!

But on other patches, unfortunately it hasn't been that easy...


However, I think part of the problem is also that, with Kyma, it's not that easy to predict how demanding a patch is going to be, at least when compared with the Clavia Nord Modulars...

One of the patches I tried to create recently was a stereo delay with similar features to a Lexicon Prime Time, so basically two delays with modulation and feedback.

To make things more interesting, I decided to use 4 delays in series rather than a single delay, as I felt it should be much interesting when raising the internal feedback (but of course, there would still be an external feedback line for a more standard feedback).
And with that external feedback line, I also wanted to add a new path that would let me filter it a mix of the feedbacks and just add it to the main output, with possibilities to change the panning as well.

Unfortunately, I got the "Out Of Real Time" message for this patch, but could make it work by using a single delay (4 times longer) and removing that extra path for the feedback lines.

The weird thing is, the patch I ended up getting consumes around half the DSP or less than the full version I wanted, so a pretty significant difference...


I just hope with some more experience it becomes a bit more intuitive! Smile


If someone here still uses a Capybara 320 with Kyma X that could shed some more light on how to figure this out, it would be really appreciated! Smile
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robsol
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmmm... it's possible that the out of realtime message is a result of that feedback path somehow. I wouldn't think 8 delays would have any problems running on one Capy processor... Just guessing though.

Try running each side of the stereo fx on its own processor first, then, if you need cross feedback, use a memoryWriter + Sample pair (tick 'From Memory Writer' in Sample) instead of feedback input/output pair, and check Global in the memoryWriter module.

There are still people with Capybara 360's around, but I have no idea where they hang out. Capys are still great for sound design and music, as you rightly point out. It definitely gets easier as you go along.

BTW, do you have the Kyma X Revealed book?

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paugui



Joined: Jun 28, 2008
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Location: Marinha Grande, Portugal / Oslo, Norway
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yep, I was lucky and got the Kyma X Revealed Book and the Kyma and the Sumofsines Disco Club with my Capybara 320! Smile

Unfortunately I don't have the books with me, but the Kyma X Revealed is still available as PDF, so I can always check Smile


So far, it has been very useful when using complex expressions in the parameters to make things more interesting Smile

But I have to admit I haven't really explored the Timelines and most other features...
So far I have been focusing more on creating new sounds, which is pretty cool, but I guess is definitely an underuse of the unit...



I will give it a try and change the feedback into Memory Writers, maybe that can fix the problem a bit, at least!


And you are right, it definitely gets easier as you go further!

Right now is so much easier for me to do things in Kyma than it was a year ago...

The interesting part is also to go back to sounds you created then and redo them in a way you feel it is more efficient...
I end up always finding something I can change Smile
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paugui



Joined: Jun 28, 2008
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Location: Marinha Grande, Portugal / Oslo, Norway
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G2 patch files: 37

PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So... I actually tried a bit to replace the feedback with Memory Writers, but the results haven't been what I imagined...

In a reverb patch I am creating, if I don't have Global turned on on the Memory Writers, it works ok...
But as soon as I turn Global on, the patch gets too much load on processor 1... :S

I am pretty puzzled at why does it work this way...
Shouldn't it spread the load if the Memory Writer is set to Global?
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robsol
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That doesn't make sense, no... It could be me who has misunderstood the function of that parameter.

I think your best option is to send Symbolic Sound an email. They are quite friendly in that sense and will probably answer.

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