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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Developers' Corner
Single Part (!!) good sounding ring modulator--BB4214
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cslammy



Joined: Apr 27, 2018
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:31 am    Post subject: Single Part (!!) good sounding ring modulator--BB4214 Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I added unity gain buffering but might not be necessary. Literally can be a one part DIY project that IMO sounds good.

http://audiodiwhy.blogspot.com/2019/08/super-sounding-super-low-parts-count.html

Sound clip here:
https://soundcloud.com/cslamm/bb4214

Thanks to MVCL E-M user for turning me onto this NOS chip. (There are still some on Ebay).

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ixtern



Joined: Jun 25, 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A curiosity. Seems that MPY100 may be replacement for 4214. Picture below taken from 1984 Burr-Brown Product Data Book.


4214_eq_circuit.png
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cslammy



Joined: Apr 27, 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ixtern wrote:
A curiosity. Seems that MPY100 may be replacement for 4214. Picture below taken from 1984 Burr-Brown Product Data Book.


For sure! The 4214 is around but can be a touch hard to find. So I'd liket to see about other possibilities.

IMO this single part BM sounds as good or better than the AD533, AD633, 3080 and 13700 BM's I've built. Definitely kicks butt on AD633 and OTA, but maybe my design was crappy?

The AD533 one came out about as well but integrating the 10 pin can in Eagle was tricky.

http://www.charlielamm.com/gear/balanced-modulator/forums.html#ad533

The AD633 doesn't sound as good--to much feedthrough, at least with this design.

http://www.charlielamm.com/gear/balanced-modulator/forums.html#ad633


If anyone ever checks out a 4214 replacement and it works as well/with as little DIY effort, I'd be interested to know about it. Thanks!

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gabbagabi



Joined: Nov 29, 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nice!
and low part count as promised Very Happy

i have some dificultys to fnd that thing on xbay, any help?

cheers, cu soon mate
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cslammy



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

gabbigabba!!!

I see at least four of them for sale in China over Ebay--not the exact same chip I used but it looks to be the same BB4214 w a different designation.

Does this link work for you? 8-23-19 8AM US PT.....works for me.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=BB4214&_sacat=0

Can't vouch for how well they will work--I am always a bit hesitent to buy chips out of China, but for older ones sometimes you have no choice.

trying to buy more myself....I will keep you posted and if I can get some good ones I'll let you know.

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Grumble



Joined: Nov 23, 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cslammy wrote:
The AD633 doesn't sound as good--to much feedthrough, at least with this design.

http://www.charlielamm.com/gear/balanced-modulator/forums.html#ad633

Looking at that design I noticed that the inputs of the 072 is just a capacitor which will give an offset caused by the offset input current (typ. 65 pA) in combination with the (especialy with good capacitors) impedance of the capacitors C1 and C4.
This input offset current is temp. dependent to make things worse.

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gabbagabi



Joined: Nov 29, 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Shocked 20Döllars?
Thats around 18 Coins over my WTPFAC-Limit (willingness-to-pay-for-a-chip)

But if it gives you back your beloved LazerGun - it can worth it!

i dont know about internal caps and temperature, but as far as i know the positive input of an opamp should be connectet (thru a resistor) to a potential, otherwise the input tends to drift around.
May you could move the caps just before the pots. with 100k and 1µ you would get fc = 1.591Hz, and the input would have automaticly a connection to a potential.
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L´Andratté



Joined: Sep 23, 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cslammy wrote:

The AD633 doesn't sound as good--to much feedthrough, at least with this design.
http://www.charlielamm.com/gear/balanced-modulator/forums.html#ad633


Hey Cslammy!
Link is 404 for me?

This one is a nice Ad633 design by Roman Sowa that let´s trim cancellation and offsets...http://www.sowa.synth.net/modular/m_rm.gif
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ixtern



Joined: Jun 25, 2018
Posts: 145
Location: Poland

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

L´Andratté wrote:
cslammy wrote:

The AD633 doesn't sound as good--to much feedthrough, at least with this design.
http://www.charlielamm.com/gear/balanced-modulator/forums.html#ad633


Hey Cslammy!
Link is 404 for me?

This one is a nice Ad633 design by Roman Sowa that let´s trim cancellation and offsets...http://www.sowa.synth.net/modular/m_rm.gif

This is strange link. If you go to:
http://www.charlielamm.com
next to Gear->Studio Electronics and Synth->Balanced Modulators and click on "AD633 ring modulator" then you will go to the
http://www.charlielamm.com/gear/balanced-modulator/forums.html#ad633
finally.
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L´Andratté



Joined: Sep 23, 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks that works...
Look at the schem I linked to- the only difference to your schem is
there´s a trimmer at the output I think it cancels out modulator feedthrough---
(I don´t know the proper english terminology?)
Smile
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