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 Forum index » Reviews, Editorials and Commentary » Commentary and Editorials
The Doepfer Controversy
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 3:58 pm    Post subject: The Doepfer Controversy Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I got an angry email moments ago. Basically the writer of that email told me to act responsibly and not endorse Doepfer products. He also pointed me to this webpage: http://www.ampmusic.demon.co.uk/fame.html

Well.. I dunno what to say. I have not been bought by Doepfer. I have just posted info on new analog synth modules.

That webpage looks a bit suspect. Guys? Help me out... What is this about?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have several points to make:

1.) Any member can post to the gear news forums. I think of this fellow stays out of advertising products, and posts interesting "hey, look at this!", or wants to post a tactful comment/review about the doepfer(or more importantly, any other) gear you post, I don't see the conflict.

2.) KEEP POSTING about all this new gear! Just yesterday we all (ok, Nord owners) not only got a glimpse at the cloud module, but Ian posted a G2 patch that kept my interest for at least 45 minutes. Reminded me of the NM1 sine bank, but without the sines! In my mind, that's why this forum exists! Inspiration!

3.) I would disregard all angry mail that is based on manufacturer, rather than true grit. I say this because that site for FAME has 80% "Doepfer sucks" and 10% "We have something better". Unfortunately, the last 10-% isn't used to prove it to the rest of us, not even pics! You run through the doepfer site, and Bob Moog, Hans Zimmer, blah blah, many notable designers & users are interested by the things that doepfer is creating. If this guy can do better, then sending hate mail doesn't make his claims any more real.
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ian-s



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Doepfer have been in business a long time, they must have some satisfied customers.
I have no personal experience with the product but the catalogue looks interesting, TB303 filter, Wasp Filter. I don’t think I have seen anyone with a bigger range of modules.
I don’t much like 3.5mm sockets, but that’s a flaw they share with the ARP2600 and Roland 100/100M.
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jksuperstar wrote:
If this guy can do better, then sending hate mail doesn't make his claims any more real.


I have no proof the guy who sent me this mail is the "fame.html" dude.

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Good points you guys are making. Yup, I am think along the same lines. The reason I posted this is that I think discussing this in public is better than.. well.. just sending emails back and forth when what was questioned in the first place was regarding Doefer had bought my ass or not. Actually, I did try to send a reply, but the mail bounced.

Hmm.. I must confess I think that what I have seen of Doepfer gear is a bit dense and .. but I don´t care really. the products seems to be solid anyway. And.. in fact .. the Doepfer footprint reminds me of some old cute ( ....immensely cute... ) lab gear.

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seraph
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:56 am    Post subject: Re: The Doepfer Controversy Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
Basically the writer of that email told me to act responsibly and not endorse Doepfer products.

He should "act responsibly" and express his doubts publicly without endorsing hate mail Exclamation

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mosc
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have only one Doepfer porduct, the Pocket Control. http://www.doepfer.de/pc.htm

I CAN endorse this product. It works exactly as advertised. It's built very well. The knobs are solid and feel good. The software they provide is quite functional and robust. The lettering is very substantial and hasn't shown the slightest indications of wearing off.

I know serveral people who have Doepfer products. They don't seem obsessed to trash this company. Instead, they seem to enjoy the products. Mini plugs and jacks are probably the weakest link in any modular system that uses them, but it isn't just Doepfer that uses mini - Buchla has been using them for years, others too. The fact is that mini jacks cost much less than the more reliable 1/4" phone jacks that some other synth makers use. Jacks make up a significant percentage of the cost of a modular synth. And using minis keep the module area down too.

That "fame" site seems amateurish to me. They say "When first introduced, the A-100 became the first analog modular system in production since the days of the classic Moog, Roland and ARP giants." This shows lack of knowledge of the synthesizer business. There were serveral other modular synth makers besides the "giants" before Doepfer started selling modulars.
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: The Doepfer Controversy Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
He should "act responsibly" and express his doubts publicly without endorsing hate mail Exclamation


Agreed! Well, I tried to respond to that email, but it bounces.
I sent an email to vertrieb@doepfer.com telling about this incident and this thread. They can respond to this if they find it worthwhile. Small companies like that can easily get their asses kicked by internet activists and rumours.

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deknow



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

...there was quite a bit of controversy years ago in the diy community. it was alleged that doepfer was using (without giving credit) designs that came from individuals in the diy community. i never looked closely at it (although my impression at the time was that the concerns were valid), but this is likely also a factor in why some people don't like doepfer.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My experience of Doepfer products (Pocket Control, MAQ 16/3 and Regelwerk) has only been good.

I have seen comments about reliability of early versions of some of their gear and some issue with quality control in the past, but also lots of good comments, particularly about the A100 stuff

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have also seen some bad comments about Mark Jenkins of AMP/ FAME, but my (minor) dealings with him have been OK.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've seen bad comments about myself. Shocked
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
I've seen bad comments about myself. Shocked

I could even write bad comments about myself. Shocked

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Parallel Worlds



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

modulator_esp wrote:
My experience of Doepfer products (Pocket Control, MAQ 16/3 and Regelwerk) has only been good.

I have seen comments about reliability of early versions of some of their gear and some issue with quality control in the past, but also lots of good comments, particularly about the A100 stuff


hello jez,
we meet again here! Smile

hoping to end the discussion:
i have a huge doepfer a100 system that i really really like! i also have many other analogue modulars(arp2600,ems vcs3,technosaurus selector systemD, system100, system100m, concussor, integrator, ms50) but my main instrument remains my doepfer modular closely followed by the integrator modular. i use it in EVERY track of mine in combi with one or more other analogue modulars.it is a 250 modules system. i always had great experience with servicing from doepfer.
the doepfer's sound is amazing/unique and it has many advanced modules that no other modular has. it is not inferior in sound to the other expensive modulars like the technosaurus selector.
also, yes, indeed, it has the biggest variety of modules of any other modular at the time. the doepfer and the integrator has some really experimental and advanced modules! many other vintage modulars just have "basic" functions mostly.
best regards,
bakis.

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seraph
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Parallel Worlds wrote:

i have a huge doepfer a100 system that i really really like! i also have many other analogue modulars(arp2600,ems vcs3,technosaurus selector systemD, system100, system100m, concussor, integrator, ms50)

hey bakis
what about some pictures Question Very Happy

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modulator_esp
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hello again bakis,

here are some pictures of bakis' studio, quite impressive is it not Smile

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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Parallel Worlds



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

many thanks jez!
add to these a roland system-100m modular (11modules so far) and a korg stage echo 500 and deduct the second korg ms20 and the korg pe1000 and the dynacord echo. also add a second roland s750 sampler and some other not visible items like ems dk1 keyboard, the korg trident mk1, the moog opus3, the microwave xt, wavestation, jp8000, fs1r, nord modular rack, tg77, tx216, electribe R, S, A, emax2 rack turbo, ms2000r, many midi-cv interfaces.
best regards,
bakis.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

now you are just showing off Wink
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Parallel Worlds



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

modulator_esp wrote:
now you are just showing off Wink

sorry, but you posted my studio pics here. so, i just completed my studio equipment list. Very Happy
best regards,
bakis.

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Mohoyoho



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Good Lord! That is an amazing studio. What kind of music do you produce with that?
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Parallel Worlds



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mohoyoho wrote:
Good Lord! That is an amazing studio. What kind of music do you produce with that?

hello mark, Smile
mainly low-tempo electronica. dark mostly. also ambient tracks.
check my PARALLEL WORLDS music releases in the "new releases" section of this forum and some free mp3's in the "online music" section of this forum.
any comments are always welcome!
best regards, Smile
bakis.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've listened to Bakis stuff before - it's good.

...and yes - definitely a droolable bit of gear!
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Parallel Worlds



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jkn wrote:
I've listened to Bakis stuff before - it's good.

...and yes - definitely a droolable bit of gear!

thanks for the nice comments john.
best regards, Smile
bakis.

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bigtex



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

deknow wrote:
...there was quite a bit of controversy years ago in the diy community. it was alleged that doepfer was using (without giving credit) designs that came from individuals in the diy community. i never looked closely at it (although my impression at the time was that the concerns were valid), but this is likely also a factor in why some people don't like doepfer.

deknow


Yes, around 2001, 2002, Jurgen Habile was complaining that Dieter Doepfer ripped off Jurgen's re-design of the Wasp filter. Others chimed in with complaints that designs they had worked on had mysteriously appeared as Doepfer modules. The complaint was that circuits which were made available for personal/private use, but not for sale, had been made for sale. Now, none of this was ever confirmed, and I think the world has moved on.

Other complaints have been about the manufacturing happening in China, but considering how much of the world's goods are made in China, this is becoming a difficult point to argue as well.

I've never owned nor used a Doepfer product, but I don't think any of this hubbub would stand in my way. In fact, their OEM/DIY section is great. They have some cheap un-cased MIDI circuits that are great for making controllers. I've often thought about getting one of those. Overall, my impression is that Doepfer runs a good business, and puts out lots of new modules and products all the time. You can't argue with results, as long as nobody has actually been hurt in the process. As far as I know, there have been no complaints about Doepfer lifting ideas from others since the 2001/2002 incidents.
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Parallel Worlds



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bigtex wrote:
deknow wrote:
...there was quite a bit of controversy years ago in the diy community. it was alleged that doepfer was using (without giving credit) designs that came from individuals in the diy community. i never looked closely at it (although my impression at the time was that the concerns were valid), but this is likely also a factor in why some people don't like doepfer.

deknow


Yes, around 2001, 2002, Jurgen Habile was complaining that Dieter Doepfer ripped off Jurgen's re-design of the Wasp filter. Others chimed in with complaints that designs they had worked on had mysteriously appeared as Doepfer modules. The complaint was that circuits which were made available for personal/private use, but not for sale, had been made for sale. Now, none of this was ever confirmed, and I think the world has moved on.

Other complaints have been about the manufacturing happening in China, but considering how much of the world's goods are made in China, this is becoming a difficult point to argue as well.

I've never owned nor used a Doepfer product, but I don't think any of this hubbub would stand in my way. In fact, their OEM/DIY section is great. They have some cheap un-cased MIDI circuits that are great for making controllers. I've often thought about getting one of those. Overall, my impression is that Doepfer runs a good business, and puts out lots of new modules and products all the time. You can't argue with results, as long as nobody has actually been hurt in the process. As far as I know, there have been no complaints about Doepfer lifting ideas from others since the 2001/2002 incidents.

hello,
the doepfer a100 user's manual clearly states that the wasp filter has been made in collaboration with the designer of the wasp filter. so, i do not see any problem with that.
i started the doepfer_a100 group in start of 2001. during 2001 and 2002 (that you mention) i had very often communication with dieter doepfer. and i am not aware of any of the incidents you mention.
best regards, Smile
Bakis.

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