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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Alternate ways of generating waveforms???
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vlab



Joined: Nov 11, 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Canada
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:02 pm    Post subject: Alternate ways of generating waveforms??? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi all !

Sorry if this topic has been discussed before,
I was playing around the factory patches the other day,
and came across a few patches that used sine waves, then waveshaped using rectifiers, overdrives, and clippers to shape other waveforms like saw and square.

It was a great discovery for me, I managed to makes some really great tones I never heard out of any other VA I have (or had) . The only one I've been unable to generate so far is a PWM wave,
Anyone managed to do this ?

Any help or contribution (inn patches or discussion) would be great !!
I can't wait to modify the OSC's from my favorite patches with this..
it sounds a gazillion times more than the stock Oscillators....

Thanks again !!

Vlab
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ian-s



Joined: Apr 01, 2004
Posts: 2575
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is one way using the comparesig module. Not as well anti-aliased as the Clavia PWM, ok for bass sounds.


PWM.pch2
 Description:
hand made pwm

Download
 Filename:  PWM.pch2
 Filesize:  1.23 KB
 Downloaded:  773 Time(s)

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dasz



Joined: Oct 16, 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey vlab,

Have you used the control seqeuncer driven by an osc, or a level sequencer driven by a hifreq pulse... both of these methods produce wavetabl-ish patches ...

btw, where in canada are you?
/Dasz
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Axiom



Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 288
Location: Italy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Why not an LFO that feeds a Square shape? Wink

This is, so far, the simplest way to have PWM.


PWM.pch2
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  PWM.pch2
 Filesize:  937 Bytes
 Downloaded:  669 Time(s)


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vlab



Joined: Nov 11, 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Canada
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Axiom,

As the title of my message reads, ALTERNATE ways of generating waveforms, of course I know how to modulate a standard OSC,s square wave to do PWM.... Otherwise I'd be in deep troubles with a G2X (!!!)
But I have to agree with you that the LFO modulating standard square is the simplest way of doing it, but my goal here is to have the best sound possible....

Take a look at the previous messages by G2Ian and Dasz.
Those suggestions are great ways to change the "voice" of
the G2, compared to the standard OSC modules.


For my part, I find the sonic palette much more interesting using
those methods instead of bulk OSC, the sound is thicker, the harmonics
sounds more natural to me, and you can modulate the waveshape in ways OSC modules can't reach.

I'd just wish that Clavia could feature some kind of "module container"
so we could build this kind of OSC modules and save them as macro and free some space in the main screen....


Vlab
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vlab



Joined: Nov 11, 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Canada
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Dasz,

I'm from Montreal !!

I guess I should add this info to my profile..

Thanks for the step sequencer tip !

Indeed it sounds kinda wavetable-ish,
but with it's own FM wierd twist, in a way my Waldorfs MW1 and XT
cant reach !!

What a great synth !

Vlab
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cebec



Joined: Apr 19, 2004
Posts: 1064
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

vlab wrote:

I'd just wish that Clavia could feature some kind of "module container"
so we could build this kind of OSC modules and save them as macro and free some space in the main screen....
Vlab


they used to. I've never seen how it works but it was in the NM Classic v2.0. right now, it's a top wish for myself and i'll bet many other people.

the building blocks subforum is a step towards this. if clavia ever (re)implement even the most rudimentary macro system then these blocks can be dropped right in.
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vlab



Joined: Nov 11, 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
they used to. I've never seen how it works but it was in the NM Classic v2.0


Really ?? I have a Classic Modular too, with the latest version,
and I've never seen such a feature, why did they took it out in V3?
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Rob



Joined: Mar 29, 2004
Posts: 580
Location: The Hague/Netherlands/EC
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

vlab wrote:
Quote:
they used to. I've never seen how it works but it was in the NM Classic v2.0


Really ?? I have a Classic Modular too, with the latest version,
and I've never seen such a feature, why did they took it out in V3?


It was a way of saving a couple of modules and later recall that group of modules in another patch. It wasn't really macros or grouping a couple of modules into one 'greater' module, as the individual modules were kept.
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Rob



Joined: Mar 29, 2004
Posts: 580
Location: The Hague/Netherlands/EC
G2 patch files: 109

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 4:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Alternate ways of generating waveforms??? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

vlab wrote:
The only one I've been unable to generate so far is a PWM wave. Anyone managed to do this?

Yep, it is quite simple with the Clipper module in a feedback loop in a mixer. Used this way the clipper turns into sort of an analog style comparator with controllable gain. If the gain is high (100% feedback) the slopes of the resulting pulse will be virtually vertical. With less gain the slopes will slightly tilt and the sound will be smoother. In fact it is possible to morph between a triangle and a squarewave with this circuit by controlling the amount of feedback.

Clipper must be set to symmetric and the input waveform must be either a triangle or a sinewave. The amount of feedback defines the slope of the leading and trailing edges of the pulse. The trick to get PWM is to add a slowly varying value to the triangle waveform.

The advantage if using a triangle wave to generate a PWM pulse wave is that the perceived detune goes both lower and higher and the resulting pitch centers around the pitch of the triangle wave. This makes it more easy to use audio rate waves tuned to the basic pitch to create interesting ringmodulated pulses types of sounds. See patch 3.


PWM_DIY.pch2
 Description:
Generating a PWM sound from a triangle wave

Download
 Filename:  PWM_DIY.pch2
 Filesize:  1.04 KB
 Downloaded:  648 Time(s)


PWM_DIY2.pch2
 Description:
Fuller PWM sound from a triangle

Download
 Filename:  PWM_DIY2.pch2
 Filesize:  1.75 KB
 Downloaded:  674 Time(s)


PWM_DIY3.pch2
 Description:
Audio rate PWM from a triangle wave

Download
 Filename:  PWM_DIY3.pch2
 Filesize:  1.56 KB
 Downloaded:  703 Time(s)

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Rob



Joined: Mar 29, 2004
Posts: 580
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 4:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Alternate ways of generating waveforms??? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Still the principle also works with sawtooth waves and is interesting to get e.g. a slightly lively sawtooth waveform. Feedback and modulation should be shallow to retain the sawtooth character. The fundamental will be slightly boosted. See patch 4.

And a little synth line with example 4.


PWM_DIY4.pch2
 Description:
Generating a lively sawtooth with the PWM trick

Download
 Filename:  PWM_DIY4.pch2
 Filesize:  1.1 KB
 Downloaded:  683 Time(s)


PWM_DIY5.pch2
 Description:
And a little synth made with example 4.

Download
 Filename:  PWM_DIY5.pch2
 Filesize:  2.05 KB
 Downloaded:  686 Time(s)

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Axiom



Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 288
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rob, can I have a 10th of your knowledge as Xmas gift? Razz
dho.. too late Very Happy

Luca

p.s.:
merry xmas from Italy.

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Rob



Joined: Mar 29, 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Alternate ways of generating waveforms??? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It is also possible to use a 'compressive nonlinear gain cell' instead of a clipper. In this case harmonics are built up in a gradual way and the resulting sound is a bit darker.


PWM_DIY6.pch2
 Description:
Generating a PWM sound from a triangle with a compressive nonlinear gain cell.

Download
 Filename:  PWM_DIY6.pch2
 Filesize:  1.28 KB
 Downloaded:  684 Time(s)

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vlab



Joined: Nov 11, 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Canada
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Rob,

Thanks so much for this info, it's exactly what I was looking for !
and also, thanks to all who replied, I learned a lot !

Vlab
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