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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » General Discussion
The Krunkus Robotic Ride Cymbal
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:11 am    Post subject: The Krunkus Robotic Ride Cymbal Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I successfully breadboarded the interface circuit for the Roboride this afternoon. Cool
I've got a 16 step sequencer, based on 4017s driving a pair of 2N3904s setup as inverting amps then into a current amplifier TIP41. That kicks the solenoid which taps out the sequence on an old ride cymbal. It's all running on a 12V plug pack. Very Happy
I took a .mov of it but I can't attach it. (maybe Howard might fix this). I am really happy with it. I plan on adding a second solenoid and a pair of microphones so I can record it in stereo. Not to mention a random miss a beat function, hold up circuit, and a way of jumping between two patterns. The whole thing will eventually hang on the wall like some kind of robotic musical sculpture.
I'm stoked!! Wink

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Right.. I see. We should allow .mov
ANy chance you can export an mpg or something? IF you want to I can repost the file to one of out servers and give you a link to it? YOu can send me a PM if you want me to do this.

The roboride sounds like an awesome project. I really wanna see that movie!

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deknow



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

...you will need the "i'm a drummer, so i've been drinking and dropped a stick" circut as well!

seriously, this is cool stuff...i've often thought that minture desktop midi instruments might become popular (a tiny set of chimes with midi actuated solinoids to play midi files).

deknow
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Madness......madness!!!

(IE, I love it).

Take care,
Scott
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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mov should work now. I can't wait to see this movie. I passed on going to King Kong, so, Krunkus, I'm counting on this for a great cinematic experience. Wink
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:25 pm    Post subject: Footage from the Krunkus Lab Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Okay, I'll try again.
I won't ramble on now, I'm sure everyone will have lots of questions after they see the movie.


DCP_5634.MOV
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  DCP_5634.MOV
 Filesize:  6.57 MB
 Downloaded:  644 Time(s)


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ian-s



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That is so cool.
Can you vary the pulse width or height to get dynamics?
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm thinking of doing it on stripboard with everything in place for the 4066 switches so people can adapt it for CV on each step. But on this one (which will be built into the cymbal) I'll use the 4066 switches to control the biasing on the TIP41. (I think) This will allow trigger select and dynamic control for every step.
I'm so happy with this because for years I've found the sound of programmed hi-hats and ride cymbals to be very annoying. It's generally just the same sample over and over. This way I can program my very own cymbal player who will jam along with the track, in stereo, and free up voices from my SR-16/Soundfontbank.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great project. Excellent movie. Bravo... Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't know whether I'd call it an "excellent" movie. It hasn't quite captured that sense of apprehension like Scorsese does so well.
It is the first time I've written, directed and produced a short independant film though, so I suppose my film-making skills are bound to improve.
Ironically our little camera can only output .movs so if I am to improve my films I'll have to get a mov editor. That probably means contaminating my lovely computer with Apple type software!!! (shudder) Laughing

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seraph
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

next step: a complete robotic drum set Exclamation
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm very impressed by this project. If a kit like this should appear on the market I would be very interested in buying it. Has it been a lot of work?
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seraph
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
next step: a complete robotic drum set Exclamation

actually I think you could work on how to make it more "expressive". maybe different triggering devices hitting different areas of that cymbal (closer to the center and/or closer to the rim) could create a wider timbral variety plus you need to increase the number of dynamic levels. just a thought. excellent job well done

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's the idea,
The second solenoid would be about 90Deg around the cymbal and closer to the middle. I could then experiment with the "hold-up" function as well, i.e. - activating one solenoid and holding it up to make a "node" on the cymbal surface, like when a drummer lightly grabs the cymbal. Then you tap it with the other solenoid and get completely different kinds of sounds.
I haven't experimented with putting a "cap" (either plastic or rubber) on the solenoid striker yet, but I'm sure this could be good too.
The dynamics (like I said earlier) are going to be a part of the first control board. There'll be a pot for every step (like the CVs on a normal sequencer) which will enable strength to be programmed for each step.
Antimon,
the main job, up until now, was designing and building the base which needs to hold the cymbal firmly and provide a solid base to mount the solenoids (which I also wanted to be moveable/adjustable).
The interface circuit turned out to be relatively simple, I copied an example from an electronics text book for driving high current relays. The rest is just CMOS switching and gates. The only other part left which I haven't thought through yet is clocking it from a midi cable. I think a kit would need this to improve its relavance to the average electro-musician.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Pretty f'n sweet Krunkus. Kudos Razz Your reakky using your noggin. Next Robotic Kazoo Cool I'm trying to stick with K's

Krunkus, Kudos, Kazoo

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great stuff, this. Absolutely crazy. I completely argree with your points on drummachines but I have to admit I'm not quite sure wether this will be the solution to that for everybody. I for one have neighbours...

:¬)

About the "apple contamination" thing; VLC will convert your MOV to MPEG I just tried it right here on my computer which doesn't contain any non open/free software and it worked fine. I stopped just shy of hitting "save" because I don't actually need this as a MPEG but I'd be happy to send you a converted version if this would help.

Of cource you could also install VLC yourself and I don't see why you wouldn't because it's free and runs on nearly anything (even apples, b.t.w.).

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I was only joking about the "apple contamination", they're not that bad really. The Quicktime virus has a nasty habit of trying to run all the time though. I hate anything trying to hijack my CPU cycles (it's a gamer thing I s'pose).
I'll have a look around for VLC though, just in case my movie career starts to gather speed!?! Laughing
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I stopped just shy of hitting "save" because I don't actually need this as a MPEG but I'd be happy to send you a converted version if this would help.


It'd be great if you could post it here - I downloaded the MOV, but don't have Quicktime or any conversion program (it's my work computer and I don't dare install anything on it - my home computer is just too cantankerous to mess with much anymore).

I wanna see it, too.........


Very Happy

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
(it's a gamer thing I s'pose).


Not at all Very Happy

Saw your mov, liked it, and it reminded me on the metallophone thing that some people, I amongst them, built some 15 (20?) years ago. It was a bridge to be placed over the instrument with solenoids in it and it could be played from a special keyboard. The instrument was meant to be played by disabled people and for that there was a keyboard with very large keys and another one with small keys which could be freely positioned.

I remember we've long been searching for usefull solenoids that allowed for volume control. We ended up using doorbell solenoids, not very powerfull ones with a light spring. Those were pretty fast and by controlling them with pulses of varying width some volume dynamics could be created. Apart from being fast they would sort of bounce back once the metal bar was hit, so they did not disturb the natural sound very much. Also they had a plastic tip, which gave a better sound than metal on metal did. It was certainly worthwhile to experiment here !

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scott Stites wrote:
Quote:
I stopped just shy of hitting "save" because I don't actually need this as a MPEG but I'd be happy to send you a converted version if this would help.


It'd be great if you could post it here - I downloaded the MOV, but don't have Quicktime or any conversion program (it's my work computer and I don't dare install anything on it - my home computer is just too cantankerous to mess with much anymore).

I wanna see it, too.........


Well, I tried. I think I've got some settings wrong. I tried encoding it as MP4 for both video and sound but somehow this made me end up with a video without sound, at least here.
I think that tool was meant to save streams, it seems to take my input on a playlist level which would be fine hadn't it been for me setting playlist behavior to looping the current file because that was the behaviour I was used to. Oh, and I can't quite find how to get it back..... I think this means VLC can make playlists into "compilation" type files which might be usefull combined with this thingy I saw that seems to enable it to read secitions form input files.

I have no idea what went wrong there but it's bound to be some issue with all these codecs and file extentions and so on. At least you can see it now. Imagine clanging noises... other settings I tried resulted in 0byte files so at least this is something..
Video isn't my expertise....

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:

Saw your mov, liked it, and it reminded me on the metallophone thing that some people, I amongst them, built some 15 (20?) years ago. It was a bridge to be placed over the instrument with solenoids in it and it could be played from a special keyboard. The instrument was meant to be played by disabled people and for that there was a keyboard with very large keys and another one with small keys which could be freely positioned.


I saw a performance in Berlin last autumn. this was in a experimental music store; two guys with laptops runnining LIve. One was streaming audio to speakers, the other was controlling a donzen or so of these attached to various objects around the store.

Made for a very nervous atmosphere but everybody acted like it was quite normal so I thought I'd pretend nothing was going on too.

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I must admit that once again it was electro-music which inspired this project. The sign says "Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic and electronic music"
One night I thought "there's not much electro-acoustic going on around here" and then I saw my old ride cymbal and,..... Idea
I've always been fascinated by robotics, (I've built my own little walker which runs on a 16F84 PIC) or mechatronics as they are sometimes known these days.
I've been doing the sequencer section as a stripboard layout. It should be a cool board for anyone into experimenting with the 4017 idea which Dnny originally came up with.
I have a bit of a soft spot for the 4017, (a bit like you with BBDs Scott) and I think this board will finally get it out of my system. It's actually ended up being quite elaborate, even though it is geared towards the roboride project, it could still be adapted for other sequencing and multiplexing projects.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the effort, Kassen. This @##!! computer doesn't like MP4 any better than MOV. Guess I'll have to go commando and slip a converter 'under the wire' on this computer.

Thanks again,
Scott
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

divx..

hey .. howard.. can you add.. .m4v - we must allow this for those iPod compatible files you know.

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hmm.. .divx .. seems uncool..

???


couldn´t upload it..

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