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 Forum index » Reviews, Editorials and Commentary » Commentary and Editorials
The great homogenisation
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
a by-product of homogenisation is:
Quote:
The number of "living" languages spoken in the world is dwindling faster than the decline in the planet's wildlife, according to a new study.


arrow http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0515-05.htm


I suppose, but then when you visit Malta where they speaka odd mixture of English, Itallian and something Arabian, seemingly switching in emphasis depending on the topic then I get the feeling that A) Gibson's vision was quite close and B) that need not even be that bad.

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

orczy wrote:
opg wrote:

In a musical context, I get kind of annoyed when I hear blatant mixing of different cultural music styles, especially in pop music solos (sitars, Irish flutes, Flamenco guitars, etc). Having the access to a culture's sounds/instruments and respect for the complexity of them doesn't necessarily mean your song will be an "unoffensive homoginisation," whatever that may be.



I agree. This is a big argument here, with regard to hip hop. The hip culture has been transplanted into NZ, all the bravado etc, but it doesn't ring true. Very odd.
Rant rant rant!!!!!


Sure. Same situ up here. Obviously simulacra art is popping up all over the place but that doesn´t mean it makes much sense.
trivia: For some weird reason norwegian folk music hasn´t made much impact on the world music scene ( I hate the term world music ). Did I say ..weird..? This is not weird at all. The hard core norwegian folk music makes australian aboriginal folk noise sound like Zamphir playing an AC/DC medley. You know, cute but not quite that ballsy really. OK.. the aussies have soul. Norwegians don´t have any soul. We are still mostly innit for the raping and the pillaging thing anyway.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
a by-product of homogenisation is:
Quote:
The number of "living" languages spoken in the world is dwindling faster than the decline in the planet's wildlife, according to a new study.


I see it happening here in the Netherlands. Not only Frisian (a regional language) is disappearing but Dutch itself will go as well I'm affraid. We'll all be speaking Chinese in some decades I guess, not that there is anything wrong with Chinese (except that I'd have to learn it), but it's sad to see the language of my grandparents fade away.

btw, red hair seems to be disappearing as well.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:

btw, red hair seems to be disappearing as well.


Hmm.. we still have a few specimens hidden away in some remote heathen spots.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Anyway, none of this matters. The silly bastards are shutting down our local Dahl´s brewery. Soon the local Dahls´s beer brand will be gone forever. Then we are supposed to get drunk on Tuborg or Heineken. Shocked Sad
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

another by-product is the loss of old jobs. when old craftsmen retire no one takes their jobs. it's easily visible in a town like Florence, Italy that used to be famous for its craftsmen. now all you see walking on its streets are tourist shops selling bad replicas (probably made in China) of ancient manufactures Crying or Very sad
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Last edited by seraph on Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mosc
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
but it's sad to see the language of my grandparents fade away.

btw, red hair seems to be disappearing as well.


My grandparents spoke Yiddish - pretty dead these days. My grandfather had red hair. Shocked

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seraph
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:

My grandparents spoke Yiddish - pretty dead these days. My grandfather had red hair. Shocked

my grandfather too had red hair but did not speak Yiddish Very Happy (I too had red hair before becoming gray Crying or Very sad )

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Politics is the entertainment division of the military industrial complex - Frank Zappa
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Antimon



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The male gender is on its way out as well - the Y cromosome is losing its mitocondriae (or whatever it's called).

Seriously, I think people have a tendency to want to gather in well-defined groups, to have a sense of belonging. And when those groups grow large enough, they will adapt a culture of their own, and with culture - dialects and language. As all the world becomes globalised and learns english, other layers and societies will form, with their own languages. Out with the old, in with the new.

Books written in my native language (swedish) that are more than a hundred years old are very hard to read for a swede of today, because the swedish language has been constantly influenced throughout history by other languages to such an extent that it has changed significantly over that period. Almost none of the old viking words are there anymore. It doesn't make me feel any less rooted to my language, and it still feels pretty unique in its way.

In other words, I don't fear that we will become horribly homogenized. One aspect of life is that it defies entropy.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Antimon wrote:
The male gender is on its way out as well - the Y cromosome is losing its mitocondriae (or whatever it's called).

Seriously, I think people have a tendency to want to gather in well-defined groups, to have a sense of belonging. And when those groups grow large enough, they will adapt a culture of their own, and with culture - dialects and language. As all the world becomes globalised and learns english, other layers and societies will form, with their own languages. Out with the old, in with the new.

Books written in my native language (swedish) that are more than a hundred years old are very hard to read for a swede of today, because the swedish language has been constantly influenced throughout history by other languages to such an extent that it has changed significantly over that period. Almost none of the old viking words are there anymore. It doesn't make me feel any less rooted to my language, and it still feels pretty unique in its way.

In other words, I don't fear that we will become horribly homogenized. One aspect of life is that it defies entropy.


Good answer! I like this.

BTW, I read that you are more likely to have a boy than a girl because the weight of the X and Y chromosome is less than the two X chromosomes...
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
BTW, I read that you are more likely to have a boy than a girl because the weight of the X and Y chromosome is less than the two X chromosomes...


Depends what time of the ovulation cycle you start with: If you start slightly early, you get a boy--they are smaller & faster swimmers. Start later, and the uterus is more acidic-- killing off the smaller Y swimmers while the larger X swimmers are more rugged and get through. Yes, we're trying for children at the moment Smile Smile

Back on topic: I think the group thing is very valid. We tend to organize & name everything (isn't that the first thing Adam did when God put all the animals in front of him?), so it'd only make sense we do this to ourselves as well.
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jksuperstar wrote:
..Adam did when God put all the animals in front of him?.


Hmm, they are selling Bob Dylan records in Denver too? Shocked Laughing

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No, I learned that from science class in school. You know, creationists...
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jksuperstar wrote:
Yes, we're trying for children at the moment Smile Smile


Congratulations!

Perhaps you can chill your loins in Apu's QuickieMart vegetable freezer to increase the chances of fertility.

But to keep on topic, you know what pisses me off? FAD FOODS. You know, when certain ethic flavors pop up in chain restaurants (Applebee's, Subway, etc) - the first I can remember is pesto, then balsalmic vinegar, and then chipoltle sauce...
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

opg wrote:
But to keep on topic, you know what pisses me off? FAD FOODS.


If you let something like this piss you off, then you are getting upset more than you need to be. Idea

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Your food comment just brought to light one of the positive's of globalization.

Santa Fe, New Mexico has a strange combination of old spanish, mexican and more modern southwestern foods that is completely unique. Over the centuries (literally, Santa Fe is one of the oldest cities in the US), I think they've perfected this combination and have created something completely different and unique to that region. Some of that is copied (like the popularity of Chipotle and Adobo), but if it hadn't been for the combination of these aspects, this food simply wouldn't exist. It's by far my favorite in the world.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I guess there should be a distinction: There's Hype, and then there's Experimentation. If a certain style of music or type of instrument (or food)is added "because everybody's doing it," then it's Hype. If George Harrison travels to India and falls in love with the sitar and sees if he can incorporate it into a song, then it's Experimentation.

I'm not going to run out to Subway just because they've decided to squirt some chipoltle-type substance onto an existing sandwich. Geez....looks like I hit a nerve....
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I understand. My only point is that there is a grey line between Hype and Experimentation (and maybe a few other distinctions), and the only real difference I can make is the intent behind each. Figuring out the intent is often impossible, because the result of hype, experimentation, or other can very often be the same thing. Sometimes hype is integrated with art in a beautiful and tactful manner. Sometimes experimentation, even with the purest of intent, still results in something that can be considered degrading by the "originating" culture.

Oh, one a side note, one thing I find ironic in cross-culturization is discovery of self. As when a practice in 1 culture is so ingrained that it looses its meaning. But once discovered by another culture, they might say, "oh, you do that because of this". First culture reponse might be" Oh, I hadn't thought of that, I guess that's probably true!".
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

orczy wrote:

I am concerned on a broader level however. Away from music, into fashion, art, speech, everything seems to be heading into the same direction. It has all become one big bland blah, and I I worry about the younger generation who just lap it up. ie: Get the car, "customize" it like everyone else, have the same hat (which is for some American sport team), listen to the same commercially produced music that says nothing about your own life, eat McDonalds, text your mates etc. And that is just the teenagers.



In truth these youth for whom ye worry seem just like the shits I went to school with in the early 60s. 95%+ did not think for themselves nor could they see any point in it.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bachus wrote:
In truth these youth for whom ye worry seem just like the shits I went to school with in the early 60s. 95%+ did not think for themselves nor could they see any point in it.


I get your points, but for the most part I see human culture still evolving. The biostrategy of the old dying off to make room for the young, while not perfect, seems to be working.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:

I get your points, but for the most part I see human culture still evolving.


True, but sure is a slow painful and non-monotonic process.

mosc wrote:
The biostrategy of the old dying off to make room for the young.


That's a good comforting rationalization. But I prefer: "Haha! Too old to die young " babble

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

people have tried in the past to homogenise cultures. good luck!

ironically, one of those attempts was to create a new language. that went well.

why did latin die?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Stanley Pain wrote:
people have tried in the past to homogenise cultures. good luck!

ironically, one of those attempts was to create a new language. that went well.

why did latin die?


Because Esperanto was so much more popular? Rolling Eyes

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