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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Bugs
V1.4 editor crashes when saving prf after cut/paste
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Chet



Joined: Nov 19, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:35 am    Post subject: V1.4 editor crashes when saving prf after cut/paste Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Using the attached performance, I can get the editor to crash when I follow these steps:

1. Go to slot D.
2. Highlight all modules by choosing 'Select All' from the 'Edit' menu.
3. Put the modules in the cut/paste buffer by pressing ctrl-C.
4. Click on the FX area in slot D.
5. Paste the modules into the FX area by pressing ctrl-V.
6. Attempt to save the performance to disk. The editor will crash.

My environment is:

Windows XP SP2
V1.4 editor.
The G2 is not attached.

I reported a similar problem in v1.32. It looks like a fix didn't get into this update. Sad

Last edited by Chet on Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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Blue Hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
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Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I can't reproduce this, not with the G2 detached and not with the G2 attached. Also XP SP2 & 1.4.
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Chet



Joined: Nov 19, 2004
Posts: 231
Location: Lititz,PA,USA
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G2 patch files: 35

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmmm...I'm glad it works for you. But for me, it still crashes the editor when saving to disk.

Just checking, when you save it, I suppose the file size is significantly bigger than the 55k performance I posted?
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's still in the ... erm .. recycle bin ... and it's 55 K
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Chet



Joined: Nov 19, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Now I'm confused. If you copied and pasted all the modules from the slot D VA area to the slot D FX area, and saved it to disk, I think it should've grown bigger than the original 55k file. There were a lot of modules in the slot D VA area.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Erm I cut 'm, not copied, I'll retry.

Edit : Ok, can reproduce it now, sorry for the fuzz - the file is unmodified seemingly by the crash.
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Chet



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for re-trying. I'm glad (I suppose) that it can be reproduced.


I think there's some kind of size limit to performances. Attached is a performance that contains nothing but SeqCtr modules (unwired). There are 80 SeqCtrs in slot A, with 40 in the VA area and 40 more in the FX area. Slot B is identical, with 80 more SeqCtrs. If I try to copy/paste one of the batches of 40 SeqCtr modules to slot C, the editor will crash when I try to save it. I suppose it's another occurrence of the same problem.

Last edited by Chet on Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, that crashes the editor here as well.

55 K is a huge patch BTW, from a random set of about 600 patches I scanned I've got 13 that are larger than 20 K, none that are larger than 30 K. I had seen one of your patches a while ago to be something like 50 K, I guess you really are the only one likely to run into this problem :-) or :-( rather :-)

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jksuperstar



Joined: Aug 20, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I can't attempt to reproduce your problem at the moment, but I noticed in the readme over the last few versions that some fixes were made for large *patches*, since some very large patches also caused crashes (but have now been fixed).

Maybe Clavia just needs to be reminded/reiterated, that this is a *performance*. And now that 2 people can reproduce the exact problem, that should help them fix it as well.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jksuperstar wrote:
*performance*


Just to be sure, where I said patch in the previous I meant "patch and/or performance". I'm a bit sloppy on that.
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Chet



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK, I think I've found what's going on: Clavia is using 16-bit math somewhere, and when a patch gets larger than 65,536 bytes, an overflow exception occurs and the editor shuts down.

I've experimented with incrementally increasing the size of a performance by adding SeqCtr modules one a time until the editor crashes. The last successful save was when the performance size was 65,517 bytes. My extrapolation tells me that one more SeqCtr module was enough to blow out the 16-bit math limit.

Who uses 16-bit math anymore? Maybe it's a limitation of the controller CPU inside the G2 itself.

Bummer. But at least now I know why.

Jan, thanks for your help in verifying this.
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Listen Jan, in this case I guess it would be about 16-bit math and not shoeboxes.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Chet wrote:
OK, I think I've found what's going on:


a 16 bit limit ... I wouldn't have thought on that ...even when today I've been using some 24 bit math even. For a controller, yes.

Let's hope it is a non necessary limit, but I fear ...

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ian-s



Joined: Apr 01, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Chet wrote:
Who uses 16-bit math anymore? Maybe it's a limitation of the controller CPU inside the G2 itself.


Its common (but bad) practice with C to pre-allocate a buffer that is much larger than you think you will need, then assume you never need to check.
Of cause you fully intend to go back latter and do it properly Rolling Eyes

Some people love C, some hate it, I think its just average.
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