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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » G2 Patches - Experimental
Real-time record and sample manipulator
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TheRain



Joined: Dec 28, 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:56 pm    Post subject: Real-time record and sample manipulator Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This patch shows off some fun sample reversing effects and playback speed control that can be done using delays on the G2. It is a tweaked version of the patch from this e-mail ---> http://mail.electro-music.com/pipermail/nord-modular/2004-August/000359.html from Johannes Taelman.

Make sure your sequencing is running. I put a crappy little sequence in here just for quick demo. The sampler is set to trigger from the keyboard, but not pitch track. I like using KB Hold to mess with the samples. On the front panel controls, if you have a G2 keyboard, there is a "Reverse Switch" which will instantely change the sample to playing reverse. Play around with the Playback rate knob (which is attached to the Playback LFO) and also the Start Point offset will modulate where the playback will begin on the next trigger. I threw in Rob's level compensated filter model as well.


Recorder.pch2
 Description:
Fun sampling effects with reverse and playback speed.

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 Filename:  Recorder.pch2
 Filesize:  3.7 KB
 Downloaded:  1162 Time(s)


recordrevdemo.mp3
 Description:

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 Filename:  recordrevdemo.mp3
 Filesize:  218.78 KB
 Downloaded:  473 Time(s)

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Afro88



Joined: Jun 20, 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow Shocked Excellent patch!! Even with extreme playing the delay loop never stuffs up! Really clever Very Happy

I'm guessing that the input/output2 feedback loop keeps the sample solid, which leaves output 1 available for the reverse and speed changes without screwing the loop up.

I can see that the first LFO is for the pitch/speed of the delay loop, but what's LFOB doing? And the whole section in aqua is beyond my understanding too Embarassed
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ian-s



Joined: Apr 01, 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, a very clever patch. I was having difficulty following it as well so I stripped it back.

This is a basic version that uses just the one LFO. Using the clock sync mode, 1/2 gives a perfect reverse, 1/1 has no output and slower rates give various speed forward loops. The phase control on the LFO shifts the loop start around in relation to the input.

Push start, the eventseq gives a 1 bar delay to capture the input, then it just loops.


Reverse.pch2
 Description:
1 bar reverse

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 Filename:  Reverse.pch2
 Filesize:  2.83 KB
 Downloaded:  1151 Time(s)

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Fozzie



Joined: Jun 04, 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is very very cool!!! I have tried to get it to work with clocksynced delays (quad delay; tried on the demo), but although it appears to work on 120bpm, pitch is off at other tempi. Why? If I understand correctly, the LFO should do the correct 'reverse-delay' sweep in sync mode, right? And the delay length should also work. Any ideas?
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TheRain



Joined: Dec 28, 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Ian... that looks much more tidy. To be honest, I didn't understand how the original person accomplished this, but I realized it was the LFO that was controlling the playback speed so I figured out how to reverse it too. Maybe your patch will help to understand what is actually being done here.
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Blue Hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok I now understand the arlier remarks in the other thread about the delay being needed .. there was a lot more going on ... and also there is some clever patching going on here, I'm lost a bit still :-)

And thanks Ian for simplifying it, that will give me some chance at least to get it.

I had seen Johannes Taelman's patch before, but had never thought this could be done with it.

Interesting !

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Fozzie



Joined: Jun 04, 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Fozzie wrote:
This is very very cool!!! I have tried to get it to work with clocksynced delays (quad delay; tried on the demo), but although it appears to work on 120bpm, pitch is off at other tempi. Why? If I understand correctly, the LFO should do the correct 'reverse-delay' sweep in sync mode, right? And the delay length should also work. Any ideas?

Maybe I should reconsider my opinion on the beginner's forum and move my own previous post there Wink
Because the sync delay time settings are not smooth (but stepped in xth note values), it will probably never work.

My take on how the patch works: the second delay tap (the one with feedback) is the one that keeps going but is not actually heard, but keeps the loop intact (Afro mentioned this already). The LFO that modulates the delaytime of the first tap (starting high and sweeping down smoothly) is a kind of readout-pointer-mover; it sweeps the delay readout point from 2.0s back to zero in 2 beats. However, the precise timing settings are a bit mysterious to me. I think I understand, but can't explain exactly. Of course; the 120bpm and 2sec delay is no big mystery. Now, if you set the LFO to 8/1, 4/1, 2/1 etc the output of tap 1 is normal direction but increasingly lower in speed (nice feature!), so if 1/1 is silent, it is probably putting out the same sample from the loop continuously. Therefore, the 1/2 setting is rather intuitively reversing the output order of the loop samples.
I imagine, that if the loop readout is at the end of beat 4 at the start of the LFO sweep, it sweeps back to sample 0 (first sample of the delay line). However, in 2 beats time (input sample moves at normal speed), sample 0 is the beginning of beat 3. This is a nice explanation for the 1/2 sync LFO and reversed sample playback (1x speed), however, how it outputs the whole measure instead of just 2 beats is undoubtedly very logical, but I don't 'see' it yet.
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TheRain



Joined: Dec 28, 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey fozz.. thanks, I think you're getting into it pretty well here. Still some mental blockage for me... I think it's mainly due to me not knowing how the delay signal flow works inside the delay module itself.
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Fozzie



Joined: Jun 04, 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ah, got it in reverse Embarassed
The LFO starts the readout pointer at zero delay, and increases the delay in 2 beats to 2 secs. So the input is going at a steady rate in from left to right (visually represented), but the output is going in the same direction at double speed, effectively outputting the samples in reverse order. After half a measure, it starts again at sample 0, wich has shifted half a measure in the meantime and it outputs the 2nd half of the measure.

I think Wink

[edit] for clarification: at the start of the first half of the measure, the delay starts outputting the samples from the input of the previous 1/2 measure in reverse order. After that, it goes back to 0 instantly (long live digital sawtooths) and does the same with the rest of the measure, that was put into the delay line in the 2 beats just described. Don't know if I have enough teaching skills to explain it to others, but I'm sure I get it know Idea Exclamation
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TheRain wrote:
Still some mental blockage for me...


Here as well :D

Just like when I try to calculate 17 x 17 x 17 by head and then calculate the sum of the digits, ah well.

Ok, the read pointer moves twice as fast as the loop goes, so when it did two steps the loop moved one only and so you'll get an older sample precisely one step back in time, that seems to make sense somehow.

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TheRain



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Is anyone else totally baffled by how the original patch started the sample over from the beginning at every keypress?? That's what really got me about this patch originally...
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Afro88



Joined: Jun 20, 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Having a look at the original patch, the aqua modules are named "mod64". Also, both LFO's are clocked at 30 bpm (so the playback is the exact same pitch as the recording), with one positive and phased at 357, the other pos inv with no phase. When both LFO's are added together, they don't do much - the value steadily increases to 64. Then when one resets, it jumps to another number then starts increasing again, sometimes jumping from -64 to +64. After the "mod64" operation, the output moves from -64 to +64 smoothly and steadily, just like if 1 LFO were connected. However, when the second LFO is reset, the value jumps somewhere else then keeps moving up steadily. Somehow, by using the two LFO's through the "mod64" operation, the delay "pointer" is reset to the precise location of the start of the recording when the 2nd LFO is reset. This location is different every time, because the delay doesn't care what position the lfo is in, just that the signal it receives is steadily moving one way or another.

Any ideas?

[btw, I used the midi send to a constant module trick to see what the values were doing]
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Spandex



Joined: Nov 17, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi... me noob. Just got a G2. Huzzah.

I *really* want to understand this patch fully.. so I hope you don't mind if i just think aloud.. then tell me if I've understood right Smile

So what you've got is a 2sec buffer with a "write head" moving through it at audio rate (i.e. complete cycle once every 2 seconds). For the normal delay the "read head" is 2 secs behind the "write head" (i.e. in fact JUST ahead of the write head.. because it's a loop.. and it's reading the data written there 2 secs ago just before the "write head" rewrites it).

Then we have a second "read head" which is also hardwired to follow the write head at some distance... but on this one follows at a variable distance.. and we have an LFO which increases that distance at EXACTLY the same rate that the write head is moving.. which means this "read head" essentially stands still in the delay buffer.. resulting in no sound (actually a very quiet high pitched squeal.. due to slight innacuracies?)

Then there's a second LFO which is simply added to the first... so now this second LFO actually controls the read point and lets you "scrub" thru the buffer.. and in the original example it's moving at the same rate as the first LFO.. i.e. playing back at normal speed.

But it doesn't need to be a second LFO... it can be any signal you want to use to "scrub" thru the sample. I tried connecting the wheel in instead and it certainly seemed to be the case.. tho it needs a smoother. So you can scrub/scratch with the pitch wheel... then I attached a knob as well.. and (cos it all wraps into the right range with the mod64 bit) you can use them in combination.. e.g. scrub with the knob til u find the beat you want then "scratch" with it on the wheel Smile

And the mod64 stuff is to wrap it all the right range I think? Scratchy Scrubber patch attached.


Scratchy Scrubber.pch2
 Description:
Modified version of the Recorder127 patch.

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 Filename:  Scratchy Scrubber.pch2
 Filesize:  3.34 KB
 Downloaded:  806 Time(s)

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TheRain



Joined: Dec 28, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

VERY cool! Yah, you've got the concept down. I am impressed with what you've done with this. You know, this has so many potential uses, I hope that people recognize the level of control you have with this.
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Spandex



Joined: Nov 17, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah.. I just realised you can do it with a quad delay too...

I'm just fiddling with something now that I've got 4 sequencers controlling the phase and polarity of the "scrub" LFO signal so that it "shuffles" whatever audio is coming in.. playing bits backwards and forwards. I'd like to say it sounds good.. but it doesn't.. it's a wobbly mess Smile

There's lots can be done with this tho....

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eposk



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

this is insane!
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Afro88



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's really really cool. Thanks for the patch and explanation of the mod64 thing Spandex! The real beauty of this patch is realised when an external audio source is used.

For the sake of being a technological wanker, I ran some audio from my turntable into the G2 and scratched it digitally with the mod wheel Razz
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cebec



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

turning down the mod64 removes the squeal and cripples the effect somewhat but i suspect there may be a workaround. rolling off the highs with the patch's filter helps...
this technique, by the way, is very exciting! i can't wait to hear and try new angles.
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TheRain



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry to detract, but i wanted to say that my "Lady Killer" performance in the performances section uses Spandex's additions.
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jamos



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm having a bit of fun with this myself... thanks for posting this!
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sheridan



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 8:37 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow! This is all really amazing. I first heard the above mentioned Lady Killer patch and couldn't believe what I was hearing from my G2. Then I came here (thanks to the 'thanks to spandex' line on that post) and now I'm just blown away! Thanks to Spandex's explanation, I can even kind of get my head round it all.

Cool! Very Happy

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Burp



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:25 am    Post subject: new variation on original patch Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is a great thread!
Thanks for you all to make it understandable what is going on.

I made a variation on the original patch.
A sample/synth player with some hands on knobs and buttons and a sub oscillator (tracks the pitch of the sample) to beef-up the sample a bit if needed.

The sample is 500ms, you can play 8 samples on an unexpanded G2.

Just record a piece of audio:
- by pressing A1 recording start immediately
- by pressing A2, recording starts when the input signal is loud enough
- A3 shows if the synth is recording (it uses bus3/4 VU out)

And play with it, 8 notes simultaneously, pitch stick, wheel (vibrato)... everything works with if.
- You can reverse direction of sample (A6)
- set start, length of sample.
- tune sample (A2-Cool
- change subosc...

I added the subosc, it works nice when recording a piece of whistle or voice (aaahh, ooohh etc), it beefs the sound a bit.

There is one problem, which i hope someone can come with a solution:
The sample gives some glitches in the sound, as if it's played from vinyl. I like it: it gives some character.
But if someone nows how to remove this, that would be nice!
The glitches seem to be exactly on the moments that one of the LFO's that handle the read-out pointer shifts from 64>0 or 0>64. I tried some LP's like in the original patch, and i tried the envelope (after the delay) in the original patch, but none helped, or did i something wrong?


KeySampler v2.pch2
 Description:

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 Filename:  KeySampler v2.pch2
 Filesize:  4.35 KB
 Downloaded:  639 Time(s)


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Burp



Joined: Dec 18, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:50 am    Post subject: delay in FX, 4 voices with one sample Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And another approach, i wandered if i could have cheaper voices by using the same sample for every voice. So i put the sample in the FX area, made it a 4 tap delay and made some adjustments...

Could need some more work, but the basic idea for sharing.


MaxKeySampler v1.pch2
 Description:

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 Filename:  MaxKeySampler v1.pch2
 Filesize:  3.19 KB
 Downloaded:  669 Time(s)


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