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 Forum index » Reviews, Editorials and Commentary » Commentary and Editorials
The USA Soils Itself
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, ha-ha!, and then all infidels from the coasts will be forced to bow before our majestic financial power!

Cheers,
Scott
(Esconced firmly in Kansas, awaiting the day........)

PS: Is there an emoticon for ululation?
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jksuperstar



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dmosc wrote:
someday soon the world will switch to ethanol instead of oil and on that day, the midwest will be the next saudi arabia of the world.


Maybe we'll skip that day and we'll all run Stirling engines that run off solar thermal energy, or photovoltaic rechargable fuel cells. In the terms of Kassen Smile , we exist in a pre-historic MIDI age, when we are fully capable of living in wireless OSC.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scott Stites wrote:

PS: Is there an emoticon for ululation?
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very Happy
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Doobah



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Surely the terrorists have broken laws of combat (or at least the morals of combat) by not appearing as a recognisable army (ie uniformed as opposed to acting like civilians). By doing this they have endangered their own people. Therefore other laws of combat, such as human rights etc, must be shifted to deal with the threat.

It is an impossible argument as far as their imprisonment goes, the terrorists must be fought and imprisoned, as their offence is a threat against the civilians of 'the west'. The only problem is the human rights issues regarding torture techniques (which seem disastrous, so far as i've been led to believe).

The innocents imprisoned by the west can blame nobody but the terrorists, although the capability and nerve of the western government and army is in serious question.

However, having said this, I believe that this whole issue is no more than a hoax, a conspiracy and a lie. Common people have been manipulated and treated in this way for centuries if not millenia - the only difference now is that communications have improved and the means of combat have changed drastically. Therefore wars and their related propoganda differ immensly from the past, at least on the surface (which is the only thing that anybody under the thumb of the powers that be will ever see)
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Doobah wrote:
I believe that this whole issue is no more than a hoax, a conspiracy and a lie.


Terrorism you mean, yes that's ... erm ... blown up a bit, for western pollitical purposes.

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mosc
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The events of 9/11 weren't a hoax. I know people who were in the WTC at the time. We personally know families that lost fathers and husbands. I saw the site 4 weeks after it happened - I could smell and taste death in the air. It was very real.
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rome actually burned down as well, so did the Reichstag.

Clearly neither were hoaxes in any way, in fact both Nero and the Nazi's are universaly respected, eactly because there was real and well documented smoke.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
.... in fact both Nero and the Nazi's are universaly respected....

Shocked
Not in my book
Shocked
What point are you making? I don't understand but don't like the smell of it, even though I'm not a big fan of US foreign politics.....
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My point is that just because it realy burned down doesn't nesicarily mean it might not still have been a hoax. I demonstrated that by taking two examples of this that were A hoaxes and B are genrelly considdered to have realy burned down.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Doobah wrote:
The innocents imprisoned by the west can blame nobody but the terrorists, although the capability and nerve of the western government and army is in serious question.


This, I feel, is complete and utter nonsense.

Of cource they can blame others! If I were thrown into prison without charges or evidence, then tortured and humiliated I'd blame my captors. I might blame this on their lack of care in using their powers or I might blame it on some cruelty I might then see as a inheretn trait of their personality by then but I wouldn't blame it on "the terrorists".

What terrorists, exactly, should the collapse of the foundations of our laws be blamed on? In what way, exactly, are they responcible?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

At least with the Reichstag, it is now accepted that the Nazis burned it down and then used it as a rallying cry to round up their political opposition in the name of law and order.

What Bush and the complacent US Congress (sheep) did was to use 9/11 as a rallying cry to seize control of the government, establish a police state, and control the population though fear. In this way, what they did was similar to what the Nazis did, but no matter how much one hates the US government, there is a considerable difference in degree. I've seen some conspiracy theories that the US government organized the 9/11 attacks, but that is pretty far fetched.

But they did take advantage of 9/11. Through negligence and incompetence the Bush administration is responsible for it. (Harry Truman said, "The buck stops here.") Nevertheless, the use of the term hoax is not appropriate in this case.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
But they did take advantage of 9/11.


That was the point I was trying to make. And I didn't particulary like the idea of blaming terrorists for human rights violations by western governments - europe being nothing better than the US in this.

The events of 9/11 were real and shocking. At the same time there is a political reevaluation going on regarding liberty and power of the whealthy. The right wing movement is telling you that they are fighting terrorism, but they are not. They fight for their own sake, using the very real events just because it suits them to plant fear in people. Meanwhile the problems we are having with terrorism will worsen, and I can't believe this to be stupidity.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Theodore Roosevelt wrote to a friend in the year 1897: “In strict confidence … I should welcome almost any war, for I think this country needs one.”
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
What Bush and the complacent US Congress (sheep) did was to use 9/11 as a rallying cry to seize control of the government, establish a police state, and control the population though fear. In this way, what they did was similar to what the Nazis did, but no matter how much one hates the US government, there is a considerable difference in degree. I've seen some conspiracy theories that the US government organized the 9/11 attacks, but that is pretty far fetched.


Oh, yes, I didn't think there was a "hoax" in the sense of -say- the twin towers never having existed.

I realise we are getting on thin ice there -words wise- but I think the thing can still be called a "hoax" in that people were fooled. Not just the people in the U.S. or elsewhere; I think much of the government was fooled as well.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

IMHO

Al-Qaeda planed and executed the attacks.

The attacks were both strategic and psychological.

The aim was to prompt the US to over-react and invade the Middle East thereby uniting all Islam in a war against the West.

So far, thanks to stupidity, human-nature and paranoia Al-Qaeda is on course.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:

Oh, yes, I didn't think there was a "hoax" in the sense of -say- the twin towers never having existed.

I realise we are getting on thin ice there -words wise- but I think the thing can still be called a "hoax" in that people were fooled. Not just the people in the U.S. or elsewhere; I think much of the government was fooled as well.


I agree, we're getting into semantics, but I don't agree on the hoaxiness of the twin towers attack. Even though the reaction of the US government could be said to be machiavellian, the act itself is hardly staged or fake, and thereby not a hoax.

In my book, ethics of treating prisoners of war or captured terrorists should not depend on the ethics of the captured, but solely on the capturors ethics. I understand that this might become difficult to hold on to in extreme situations (think: when it gets the majority of your people killed), but I do not think that the present situation is getting anywhere near such scenario's.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Maybe not a hoax, but certainly very well staged. The first plane hits, and from then on, all camera's are focused on the tower. A few minutes later, and a second plane flies in? You can't ask for better publicity to get people's gut into a full on war. Then add the woman screaming on the one footage in particular, and FOX "news" couldn't write something better.

Also, forget about the Saudi's flying around to remove their families from the country, while former president's flights are grounded. There was no knowledge by anyone that this would happen at all.

So, I'd agree that complacency is also an act in itself.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, I'm not on his side, of course, but if you review the actions of the last 5 years, I think Osama Bin Ladin has shown himself to be a lot smarter and a much better strategian than George W. Bush - unfortunately.
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