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 Forum index » Discussion » Composition
A discussion of the symphonic poem
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Oskar



Joined: Jul 29, 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

orczy wrote:
I have found a link between New Zealand and the symphonic poem! Or most famous ( ! ) composer, Douglas Lilburn composed many pieces about New Zealand, one being called "Aotearoa Overture".

I'd say Neil Finn is quite famous, wouldn't you?
Wink

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mosc
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dmosc wrote:
wow, I need to learn to spell, hope you could follow that...


I was able to follow that pretty well. We have a spell checker (lower right on the compose post page) BTW.

It seems to me written words can communicate thought quite well because thought is often in words. Of course it is cultural and language dependent. One rarely gets much from reading a language one doesn't understand.

Music can influence the listeners mental state, in some cases actually effecting the brain wave frequencies. Some music is very evocative visually. People say certain music brings up visualizations, but the actual images can vary from person to person. It's hard to describe how music can be beautiful, or intellectually facinating, or clever, or uplifting, but we all know it when we hear it.

The listener brings a lot to the table. How many times have we played a beautiful piece of music for someone who thought it was terrible or noise? What a shame, we think. If only that person were better informed, more open, more sophisticated, less hungup, ... whatever.

Don't we have to be receptive to beauty to perceive it? To see more beauty, do we not have to be eager for it - to actively seek and anticipate it? Is it not the same for the other aspects of art, some mentioned above?

So, once we glimpse the possibilities in any art, we start a process of exposing ourselves to more of it, to learning, to growing and expanding our horizons. A natural result of this process is that our taste changes over time.

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orczy



Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I once attended a composers workshop, for compostion students throughout the country. After each piece, the composer went onto the stage, spoke a few words, then fielded questions and comments from everyone else. I was disappointed that all the comments and questions were technical in nature, not about aesthetics. Whenever an aesthetic or an emotional content comment was made, things were quickly moved on. It seemed to me, that only intellectually derived works can stand up to this sort of environment: ie; "I really liked the granular shape to the 2nd transformation" or "the retrograde inversion of your tone row seemed to be the most successful in terms of your structure", or (worse) "i could really follow your sonata form easily". Works that didn't fall into these catergories (mine included) recieved almost derisive comments. But afterwrd, after the open forum, many people came to me to tell me how much they liked my piece, the feel, the mood, the emotion etc.
Maybe these kind of words are for private conversation?
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Kassen
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, I observed the same. There are many sites about gear, even some about how to use the gear to make certain sounds but hardly any about how to use to those sounds to make songs, tracks or compositions. It´s strange.

You can find books on how to use melodies to make complete pieces but beyond the occasional note on filtersweeps during snare-rushes there is hardly anyhting that can be found on using sounds in compositions. Mixing texts rarely go beyond adaptations of rock-recording manuals.

One element may be that many people will be more comfortble talking about things then about expressing emotions.

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Afro88



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Indeed. I find the only place to get that kind of information is forums like these. Very Happy

I'd say there's probably a huge number of people that know how to use their gear but are having a hard time composing songs that can be appreciated on the same level as the artists they enjoy listening to. I know I'm one of those people, and it can be very frustating when no matter what you write it isn't on the same "level" as those artists that you respect and look up to, and you know it's not a technical problem but an aesthetic one. I've found the only way to improve this is through practice and experimentation, that's it. Listening to as much music as possible in different situations helps alot (studio, car, earphones on the bus, in a club), as well as constant experimentation and production. Although then there's the whole writers block problem Laughing
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orczy



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Afro88 wrote:
Listening to as much music as possible in different situations helps alot (studio, car, earphones on the bus, in a club)


Or, you could stop listening to any music. I have done this on occassions, and have found listening to sounds around me etc quite inspiring. I found that it brought out some new and otherwise unobtainable material.
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Afro88



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's true. I've haven't tried that yet, but I would really like to next time I go away on holidays. Take a laptop with some audio software on it and that's it - no cd, radio or mp3 players. That sounds really cool... I think the results would be quite suprising...
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orczy



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Afro88 wrote:
Take a laptop with some audio software on it and that's it - no cd, radio or mp3 players. That sounds really cool... I think the results would be quite suprising...


....and a microphone. field recordings can be a great way to get things moving in new directions. I have used them many a time, and often, end up taking them out in the end, but have constructed a piece around them.
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Afro88 wrote:
That's true. I've haven't tried that yet, but I would really like to next time I go away on holidays. Take a laptop with some audio software on it and that's it - no cd, radio or mp3 players. That sounds really cool... I think the results would be quite suprising...


Yeah, I´ve done that. Wrote some of my mosrt accessible work that way, strangely.

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dmosc wrote:
How much of my intent and drive shows up? Do the accents I say when I read these words myself show up when you do?


Reading the posts here is really an amazing experience. On the surface this reads like a discussion over a few pints at the pub.. or does it?
If you consider the threads here as a "text", then the whole experience shifts. Most of the forum posts are the "ME" kind of stuff. So, consider reading this as a text, the experience is really something out of a PKD novel. This is not a bad experience at all. One minute I think this.. and I am really into the very minute details of what have you.. the next moment "I" am taking this in a completely different direction.
I recommend reading the threads both as text with .. and also as a discussion.. See what I mean?

And dmosc, you are making yourself clear. Indeed.

Man, I love these threads.

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orczy



Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just re-read his thread. Fantastic stuff by all.

I am currently engaged in working on some piecs that are an attempt to translate symblist pictures into sound.

Anyone else worked in such a way. I am finding it challenging, revealing and frustrating all at the same time.

Cheers
Chris
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seraph
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

orczy wrote:

I am currently engaged in working on some piecs that are an attempt to translate symblist pictures into sound.

Chris
I would definitely check Metasynth out if I were you Very Happy

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bachus



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

orczy wrote:
I am currently engaged in working on some piecs that are an attempt to translate symblist pictures into sound.

Anyone else worked in such a way. I am finding it challenging, revealing and frustrating all at the same time.

Cheers
Chris


Sort of. The last piece I completed was a working out of the remembrance of a brief nighttime video clip showing a couple fleeing an air raid during the most recent Iraq war. The image, as a single still frame, stuck in my mind and haunted me a bit.

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orczy



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:

I would definitely check Metasynth out if I were you Very Happy


Yeah I have that, and it is my main processing tool. I haven't tried the pict to sound thing though.

Bacchus: How did your piece work out? I'd be keen to know some of your process.

Elektro80 may have some words of wisdom for us here. I am sure some of his Utmost pieces were inspired by images.

It is really interesting this picture into sound idea. With an image you can look at it for as long as you want, focus on parts of the picture etc. A piece of music is temporal. An intereresting difficulty.
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seraph
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

orczy wrote:
Yeah I have that, and it is my main processing tool.

MetaSynth 4 Question

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bachus



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You can get a "hires" version of it here I recently put it up under this name : "The Shadow of War - A Lamentation" I guess you'd have to describe my music as pre-modern so it may not be of much interest.

Speaking of interest, I am a fan of most of the Symbolists. Do you care to say which artists you are working from?

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

orczy wrote:
Elektro80 may have some words of wisdom for us here.


Well, I dunno about wisdom.. Shocked Cool


orczy wrote:
I am sure some of his Utmost pieces were inspired by images.


Well, not really. As for the "topics", certain of the events discussed in the music are iconic, but I haven´t really used images in the process.

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bachus wrote:
I guess you'd have to describe my music as pre-modern so it may not be of much interest.


I know why you feel this is premodern, but frankly I think your music is quite within the scope of modernism in music.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am not really a big follower of the 1:1 school. There is a lot more to art than photocopying. Consider that can photography can be called an art. It is just as much about stuff like choosing what to see and presenting an alternative reality or a more condensed reality. Or whatever.

I did try to start a discussion related to this in here. Delacriox obviously did not quite paint an iconic representation of the french revolution. Instead he managed to raise many issues simultanously and that specific painting is full of riddles.

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

orczy wrote:
Just re-read his thread. Fantastic stuff by all.

I am currently engaged in working on some piecs that are an attempt to translate symblist pictures into sound.

Anyone else worked in such a way. I am finding it challenging, revealing and frustrating all at the same time.

Cheers
Chris


Symbolist paintings? Which ones?

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orczy



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:


Symbolist paintings? Which ones?


Well, they are ones I have done myself, so I guess that brings another interesting point to proceedings.

I have worked with words and images before, and the poet was Maeterlinck and the artists was Doudelet. They did a series of 12 poems and engravings, which I set for piano and soprano.

I like engravings, and wood cuts, particularly ones from 1500-1700, when things are a bit more primitive. But I can't do them, so my "paintings" are a bit more hmmmm.

I suppose I should put some up somewhere.

As regards Metasynth, I have version 2. It is pretty old I guess, but I have only started using it this month, mainly to process the harmonium and assorted clunks etc.
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seraph
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

orczy wrote:
As regards Metasynth, I have version 2

Metasynth 4 is a killer Exclamation

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