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aMUSEd
Joined: Jun 08, 2005 Posts: 34 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:14 am Post subject:
FSR1 |
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Since the G2 has great FM capabilities as well as formant filters would it be possible to make something like an FSR1? Anyone made anything similar? _________________ http://fingermarks.co.uk/music.htm |
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Unfed
Joined: May 11, 2004 Posts: 200 Location: Rochester, NY
Audio files: 4
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Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:50 am Post subject:
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i'm guessing you're speaking of the Yamaha FS1R? _________________ SoundCloud |
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aMUSEd
Joined: Jun 08, 2005 Posts: 34 Location: UK
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mother misty
Joined: May 13, 2004 Posts: 681 Location: Ghent / Belgium
Audio files: 82
G2 patch files: 130
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Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:57 pm Post subject:
Re: FSR1 |
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aMUSEd wrote: | Since the G2 has great FM capabilities as well as formant filters would it be possible to make something like an FSR1? |
I had the exact same question about a month ago.
So I've downloaded the FS1R manual.
Seems like a FS1R has 16 "formant operators"
(8 voices & 8 unvoiced ones), it also has 88 algo's instead of 32.
I've no idea how to make a formant operator, maybe some people on this board with a FS1R can give some comment on that?
I know Acidfever has a FS1R... |
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jksuperstar
Joined: Aug 20, 2004 Posts: 2503 Location: Denver
Audio files: 1
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mother misty
Joined: May 13, 2004 Posts: 681 Location: Ghent / Belgium
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Afro88
Joined: Jun 20, 2004 Posts: 701 Location: Brisbane, Australia
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24081 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:35 am Post subject:
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When I try to download the "FS1R-alike.pch2" attachment I get a message that the file does not exist anymore, don't know what went wrong but could you maybe try to upload it agaun Afro ? _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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aMUSEd
Joined: Jun 08, 2005 Posts: 34 Location: UK
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:43 am Post subject:
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Afro88 wrote: | If I understand the manual correctly, this is essentially what it is, but without alot of the modulation options (sequencers for formant parameters etc.) and effects. It's only 6 formant operator too, because I wanted to use the inbuilt dxrouter.
Initially in the manual it looked like each operator had it's own bandpass filter, but after reading a review it's more that when patching, you should consider each formant operator to occupy one formant area - the formant filter is applied to the mix of the operators. At least that's my understanding...
You can get some pretty cool sounds! |
Clever - thanks -I'll give this a try. _________________ http://fingermarks.co.uk/music.htm |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 212
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:24 pm Post subject:
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Blue Hell wrote: | When I try to download the "FS1R-alike.pch2" attachment I get a message that the file does not exist anymore, don't know what went wrong but could you maybe try to upload it agaun Afro ? |
Hmm. Works OK for me. Maybe a temporary network connection problem. _________________ --Howard
my music and other stuff |
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ian-s
Joined: Apr 01, 2004 Posts: 2669 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Audio files: 42
G2 patch files: 626
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:54 pm Post subject:
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Afro88 wrote: | Initially in the manual it looked like each operator had it's own bandpass filter |
Each operator can be an FM operator or a bandpass filter, there are also optional multimode filters for each voice. The operators also have some interesting non sine options. What an amazing synthesiser, it even plays DX7 patches.
I think the G2 would be selling better if it accepted DX sysex dumps. |
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jksuperstar
Joined: Aug 20, 2004 Posts: 2503 Location: Denver
Audio files: 1
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:13 pm Post subject:
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After reading the manual a bit, aren't these osciallators more like "bandpass" oscillators, so that when the bandwidth is reduced all the way, they are generating a basic sine wave, and hence the DX compatibilty? Otherwise, each osc is generating a single formant, a complete bell shape in the freq. domain? |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24081 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:29 pm Post subject:
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mosc wrote: | Maybe a temporary network connection problem. |
Guess so, later it worked ok, the patch does some nice things ! _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Afro88
Joined: Jun 20, 2004 Posts: 701 Location: Brisbane, Australia
Audio files: 12
G2 patch files: 79
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:34 pm Post subject:
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g2ian wrote: | Afro88 wrote: | Initially in the manual it looked like each operator had it's own bandpass filter |
Each operator can be an FM operator or a bandpass filter, there are also optional multimode filters for each voice. The operators also have some interesting non sine options. |
Ahh yes, I see. In "form" for each operator, you can choose sine, all1, all2, odd1, odd2, res1, res2, frmt. Sine is the usual sine wave, but there are parameters that are effective when the other forms are chosen. If frmt is chosen, the operator behaves like a bandpass filter. Now how does that interact in the algorithm? Does the signal just pass through it? Also, I noticed there is a knob where you can change the volume of voiced operators as to unvoiced operators. Does that mean these are separate (FM wise)? Damn this is a huge synth.
It also looks like there is one multimode filter per "voice" (patch in Clavia speak). At least they're clear about that one.
I haven't read it yet, but this looks like a good guide: http://www.sitepassenger.com/thomas/fs1r/heart.html |
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jksuperstar
Joined: Aug 20, 2004 Posts: 2503 Location: Denver
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:03 pm Post subject:
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Yes, according to that link Afro88, Yamaha is using a form of FOF syntehsis. A sine wave is pushed through a short envelope (window function), much like granular synthesis works. Then there's the option of using a saw instead of a sine. Even though the author refers to the envelopes as Window Functions, I don't think this method should be confused with Window Function synthesis, which is another method of generating Formants.
...
All these terms reminded me of Curtis Roads book (computer music tutorial), so I pull that out and tried to make a comaprison...it's definetly FOF. In fact, the originators of FOF also used the same terminology and basic parameters as the FS1R uses-- defining a skirt, peak center amplitude, and the Q/bandwidth at -6db. Turn off the envelope, and you get a pure sine wave out, just like the original operators in the DX series. |
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Afro88
Joined: Jun 20, 2004 Posts: 701 Location: Brisbane, Australia
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ian-s
Joined: Apr 01, 2004 Posts: 2669 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Audio files: 42
G2 patch files: 626
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:07 pm Post subject:
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Yep, fof not filters. Still not exactly clear on what is going on, the patents are making my brain hurt.
Coincidentally, this is similar to what's going on inside the speakjet speech synthesiser chip that I have been trying to emulate recently. |
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Afro88
Joined: Jun 20, 2004 Posts: 701 Location: Brisbane, Australia
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ian-s
Joined: Apr 01, 2004 Posts: 2669 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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G2 patch files: 626
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:20 am Post subject:
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Nice patch Afro.
Those patents are heavy reading
I posted something related over here |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 212
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:02 am Post subject:
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Afro88 wrote: | Through looking for stuff about the FS1R, I've found info about formants and why they're important in physical modelling style patches. Pretty much all acoustic musical instruments have formants that remain static and form the main character of the sound. |
Absolutely. This is why I keep mentioning that the G2 is severely deficient in the lack of a fixed filter bank. _________________ --Howard
my music and other stuff |
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3phase
Joined: Jul 27, 2004 Posts: 1183 Location: Berlin
Audio files: 13
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:52 am Post subject:
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and polyphonic sequencer storage !! ))
hope clavia is doing an upgrade before trying to convince me for a G3 one day... |
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Afro88
Joined: Jun 20, 2004 Posts: 701 Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Afro88
Joined: Jun 20, 2004 Posts: 701 Location: Brisbane, Australia
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jksuperstar
Joined: Aug 20, 2004 Posts: 2503 Location: Denver
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