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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Synthesized Piano (& Symphony Orch)
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elhardt



Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 73
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:25 pm    Post subject: Synthesized Piano (& Symphony Orch) Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A while back I was milling around here and noticed a thread where people were tryng to synthesize an acoustic piano. I figured when I got around to synthesizing one I'd post an MP3 demo there but can't find the damn thread. So I'll just add mine to the mix in a new thread.

Following is a piano synthesized on the Arturia MMV (Moog Modular emulator) softsynth. It uses a synthesis method I created which I call fixed hardsync formant synthesis. In theory, the same sound could be patched up on a NM.

http://home.att.net/~synth6/Arturia_MMV_Piano.mp3

Also, since I'm at it, following is a short demo of an entire symphony orch also synthesized on the MMV synth. I've been hard at work creating all the sections of the orch, including percussion, various keyboard instruments, and also celtic instruments. Both these demos are short tests done just a couple of hours ago just to see how the instruments mix together. I'll be hard at work doing many more and longer demos over the next week or so. The only outboard effects used were reverb and small amounts of EQ where needed.

http://home.att.net/~synth6/Arturia_MMV_SymphonyIntro_Beethoven.mp3


-Elhardt

[note: Blue Hell: the arturia piano patch is here]
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ian-s



Joined: Apr 01, 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow

Amazing.

Are you doing these for Arturia?
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SecretAsianMan



Joined: May 11, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uhh, me likey!
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Fozzie



Joined: Jun 04, 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:48 am    Post subject: Re: Synthesized Piano (& Symphony Orch) Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elhardt wrote:
Following is a piano synthesized on the Arturia MMV (Moog Modular emulator) softsynth. It uses a synthesis method I created which I call fixed hardsync formant synthesis. In theory, the same sound could be patched up on a NM.


Could you give some more info on this specific 'fixed hardsync formant synthesis' technique? The meaning of hardsync is quite obvious, but maybe some elaboration on the technique in total, or some info on what parameters need the most elaborate tweaking?
The demo's are nice, but with some more info the NM(2) community could really benefit by learning new techniques. For example, how is the 'stringyness' of the sound achieved?
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Axiom



Joined: Feb 19, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mmm is something like fixed formant FM but using osc hardsync?
i'm very curious Smile I'll try to figure out something when I'm at home tonight.

Cheers,
Luca

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kvnvk



Joined: Aug 27, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

very, very nice. Very Happy
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13rian



Joined: Sep 19, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sounds very cool, will you be posting the patches so we can rebuild them with the NM?

Smile

- b
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Axiom



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ehehehe i'm pretty sure that he will not post any patch Wink Anyway... i will prefer even a little hint about his technique, so I can try to figure out by myself.

Cheers,
Luca

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dasz



Joined: Oct 16, 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

are you the same elhardt of bahn sage fame?

http://matrixsynth.blogspot.com/2005/08/bahn-sage.html

/Dasz
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, he is and it will haunt him forever, I think.
Like as written above, Kenneth will never show a Patch...
There are always just mp3 files.

Wich doesn't mean these Patches don't exist, but there's no way to check this.

Wout
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Tim Kleinert



Joined: Mar 12, 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In my opinion -since these soundclips were (allegedly) done on the MMV and not the G2, and since Mr.Elhardt (as usual) will not share any detailed insights into his (hypothetical) synthesis techniques anyway -the relevance and purpose of his post here in the Nord Modular Discussion forum is zero.

Either he is here to have some fun misleading people again with another hoax, or he is just here to show off what he can pull off on a synthesis platform quite unrelated to the G2.

Whatever, dude. Please yourself. sleeping

tim
(back to patching his G2 and sharing patches and ideas)
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dasz



Joined: Oct 16, 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
tim
(back to patching his G2 and sharing patches and ideas)


Great idea tim, I did the same today. I use a string osc fed by another osc which was getting wavewrapped, which yielded interesting results.
/Dasz
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13rian



Joined: Sep 19, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

well that ruins all the fun. if this post is shrouded in secrecy and has a good chance of being completely false, then it's not quite as interesting anymore. o well. back to tweaking.
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dasz



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
back to tweaking
-- that's the right attitude!
/Dasz
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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, I don't think preparing a fake synth brochure is all that bad. I've done the same myself - http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-1770.html - maybe not as well done. Very Happy

In my own defense, It was published on April 1st. Wink

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Tusker



Joined: Feb 03, 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For me, these kinds of demos and stories are valuable even if a cheat sheet is not provided. They serve to broaden my perspective on what is possible.

Jerry
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sebber



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-1770.html


You forgot to mention that the G2X+ features everything the Nord Electro has and that the + stands for "+sampling".

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elhardt



Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 73
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the compliments from the earlier posts. I almost expected some of the typical ridiculous comments like those in the later ones. I posted the MP3 to show that a somewhat respectable piano sound can be obtained from a synth since as far as a know, to date, none have so far. At least none that have a wide enough range to play an actual piece of music on. It just requires thinking outside the box and to stop trying to rely on a crutch like PM techniques which aren't very controlable. I have no problem posting that particular patch, but since it's Arturia MMV and not Nord, I didn't expect most nor anybody to be able to load it. Just tell me where to post it and I'll put it there. Do I put it in the Nord section or is there an Arturia patch page I'm not aware of? And for those who have my Nord PianoCrash patch (how fast people forget that I have shared patches), this MMV piano patch can do that thing easily.

And I have to point out how goofy it is to think I can somehow generate actual audio sounds in an MP3 as if just by waving a magic wand. Obviously that piano sound comes from a synth, so how could it possibly be a fraud unless I'm lying about what synth it came from. Doesn't make any sense nor acheive any purposes. Those comments usually come from patch collectors who aren't interested in learning anything new anyway.

As for the technique, most of what you're hearing are hardsync'd oscillators as the sound sources, but they are detached from keyboard tracking (well actually in this case I let them track just by a small amount). The actual pitch of the note comes from the oscs they are sync'd to. This creates something like formants that are fixed even when the pitch is changed to a new note. However, when the pitch of those master oscs happens to line up at even octave intervals with the slave oscs, the hardsync sound unfortunately disappears, but since the sound is made up of 3 to 4 hardsync'd oscs at different freqs, the other remaining oscs hopefully cover up the deficient ones on those particular notes. The oscs are slightly detuned for a nice effect.

There is also quite a bit of tone shaping using the fixed filter bank, which on the MMV is really a equalizer. Since the MMV has no voltage controlled envelopes, had to best try to emulate the long sustaining lower notes and short sustaining upper notes by triggered by breaking the keyboard range into 3 sections and triggering different envelopes for those different ranges. The NM won't have that problem. Just pointing that out now for if somebody looks at my patch and wonders what's going on there. I also have a key thumping sound mixed in.

Normally I would try to create a second different patch to try to acheive more brightness from the sound without starting to sound synthetic, but I'm just barely able to acheive 12 voices of polyphony on the MMV. Don't want to knock that down by half or more because then it wouldn't make a very playable piano. Might one day try to move it to reactor. However the piano is the one and only sound I would probably use samples for for any serious recording. I did this MMV piano mostly as an experiment just to show that it can be done, and done with standard modules found on analog synths.

Here are a couple of more MP3 files with the MMV piano in them. In the second one I sacrified some realism for a bit more brightness. Every sound in them was synthesized on the Arturia Moog Modular. The first one should be played medium to medium quite, the second one should be played loud.

http://home.att.net/~synth6/Arturia_MMV_Orchestra_Rach.mp3

http://home.att.net/~synth5/Arturia_MMV_Orchestra_Grieg.mp3

I've got other demos of acoustic emulation on the MMV, but since they aren't piano related, I'll post them within the next few days on AH and elsewhere.

-Elhardt
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mosc
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Amazing samples, as usual, Elhardt.

I could make an Arturia MMV sub forum under instrument and equipment. What is the file extension used for the patches? Each extension must be separately enabled; some kind of security precaution I suppose.

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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elhardt wrote:
... And for those who have my Nord PianoCrash patch (how fast people forget that I have shared patches), this MMV piano patch can do that thing easily. ...

As it seems it's not in the archives, here it is.

Wout


PianoCrash.pch
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elhardt



Joined: May 14, 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just to note, the Nord Piano Crash patch wasn't intended to be played as a piano as it doesn't sound like one. It's only purpose was to generate what sounds like a piano being dropped or somebody banging something down on the lower half of the keyboard. Audio demo here.

http://home.att.net/~elhardt3/Inside_The_Piano_Nord.mp3

-Elhardt
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elhardt



Joined: May 14, 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
I could make an Arturia MMV sub forum under instrument and equipment. What is the file extension used for the patches? Each extension must be separately enabled; some kind of security precaution I suppose.


The extension for my version 2.0 of MMV is ".amc". I believe somebody said that in an earlier version of MMV it is ".amb" if I remember correctly. You may want to include both of those.

-Elhardt
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dasz



Joined: Oct 16, 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

can't wait Exclamation

good day for patching, tho ... although my headphones are not working well at the moment ... bad as this is my only amplification ...

but i know the headphones well .... well enough for mixing (as I know their range & response) ....
/Dasz
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Keysandslots



Joined: Aug 18, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:44 am    Post subject: Synthesized Piano (& Symphony Orch) Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dasz, a bit off-topic but just in case you're thinking about new headphones, check out the Grado SR-325.

http://www.goodcans.com/HeadphoneReviews/gradobig3.htm

or

http://www.gradolabs.com/

I use these, very impressive (at least to my ears).

Randy
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mosc
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elhardt wrote:

The extension for my version 2.0 of MMV is ".amc". I believe somebody said that in an earlier version of MMV it is ".amb" if I remember correctly.


Thanks. I included both of these to the allowable extension types and added a new sub forum for Arturia Synths to the Instruments and Equipment catagory. http://electro-music.com/forum/forum-142.html

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