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hardware obsolete?
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klangumsetzer



Joined: Jan 23, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
This one??

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.


????


count hofbrincl? ze guy who makes you remember vot elements form diatomic molecules?


best regards

eike
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p.s. i really enjoy your bedroom music... Very Happy
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seraph
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

noodulator wrote:

p.s. i really enjoy your bedroom music... Very Happy

who are you talking to Question

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klangumsetzer



Joined: Jan 23, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
noodulator wrote:

p.s. i really enjoy your bedroom music... Very Happy

who are you talking to Question

if you take (howard's) cosmic view: only to myself. Very Happy with you (second person plural) i meant e.g. you (and everybody else). kassen refered to his statements as 'bedroom lectures'. so i thought 'bedroom music' would be the equivalent, besides many e-musicians have their bedroom studio...

maybe that is too much lateral thinking. Wink

i really like your archipelago 'bedroom music'. i often listen to it in the evening with my wife and son.


best regards

eike
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seraph
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

noodulator wrote:

i really like your archipelago 'bedroom music'. i often listen to it in the evening with my wife and son.

"bedroom archipelago" Question I had never thought of that Rolling Eyes
Very Happy
btw thanks
Exclamation

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Last edited by seraph on Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jksuperstar



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I prefer the Bathroom Sonata. I sing them nearly everyday. Shocked
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Here's a link to a pic of Vytear's setup. Everything he uses is in Reaktor:


http://electro-music.com/forum/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=1847

Hey Mosc, what is the unit on the left in his setup? It's the bottom piece of gear with the rectangular illuminated display? I am wondering if thats a sound module, sampler, recorder, hmmmm ???

The knob box he has is a good one indeed, Drehbank I believe. You just have to label all your knobs or lay them out in a logical sequence. I personally own the Behringer BCR2000 as I know you do also.

Bill
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mosc
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't know what that is. From the looks of it, it looks like a delay/reverb module. Maybe someone can raise Vytear and get him to comment.
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I don't know what that is. From the looks of it, it looks like a delay/reverb module. Maybe someone can raise Vytear and get him to comment.


OK, thanks for looking. Very Happy Yes, raising Vytear for comment would be the best thing now.
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vytear



Joined: Jan 31, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello all - the box on the left hand side of my computer under the peavey slider box is an Eventide H8000. I made my live "rig" in MAX/msp with some reaktor stuff plugged into the MAX patch. As for the two MIDI controllers, I use a Deopfer Drehbank to send knob twiddles to the MAX patch and a Peavey PC1600x to send MIDI to the Eventide....of course this changes regularly to say the least as does my MAX patch.


As for the performance of these two MIDI boxes, I must say both of them leave me wanting. I made a small utility in MAX that tests all of the MIDI knobs and reports missed increments and min and max values reached. Because both of my MIDI boxes use analog pots and faders, the output is subject to bad numbers. Dust, a bad potentiometer, climate, smoke, wear and tear, can all effect the analog parts in turn effecting the output of the MIDI. The control I find the most effective and useful for me, is to map QWERTY keys to my patch. They also feel the most immediate for me as well.

On another similar note; I have been working on some new projects lately which have been fun. Here are some links to pics and sounds>>

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.


Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.


Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.


Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.


Sounds:


playing bass through it


drum machine run through


playing guitar through it


A Video of Sarah trying it out for the first time:


Sarah and machine


I am currently working on my second box...can't wait to see what it turns out like!
Hope all are well!
_Jason

www.myspace.com/vytear

[editor's note: made the pictures inline images instead of links. --mosc]
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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mega cool. I posted a cross link of your last post to the DIY forum, http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-13688.html

Looks and sounds great. I guess your unstated statement is "Hardware is not obsolete". Cool

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Mohoyoho



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very cool. I love how the drum machine sounds through it.
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vytear



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I guess your unstated statement is "Hardware is not obsolete". Cool


Yeah! I use hardware all the time.....but it's really hard to burn your hand on a soldering iron using reaktor!

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State Machine
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Hello all - the box on the left hand side of my computer under the peavey slider box is an Eventide H8000. I made my live "rig" in MAX/msp with some reaktor stuff plugged into the MAX patch. As for the two MIDI controllers, I use a Deopfer Drehbank to send knob twiddles to the MAX patch and a Peavey PC1600x to send MIDI to the Eventide....


OK then. That solves that mystery! Thanks for your reply. I was impressed with the responsiveness of the "rig" you had setup at EM2006. Almost instantaneous to your every move when you consider all the interaction between the Reaktor and MAX, all the more impressive. Yes, Laptops are really musical instruments!

My IT department will not allow me to listen to music and watch video from my PC here at work (access denied) so I will check your "BOX" out at home tonight!

PS: The doorknob adds the final touch Very Happy !!

Thanks
Bill
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Aldebaran



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am very late to the party, but....


Paul e:
Quote:
that only goes so far..music is not a private language and needs to be shared and communicated to fellow creatures..so, unless one thinks that giving academic lectures to one's self in your own bedroom is more valuable than the orations of martin luther king...



Music is whatever the musician wishes for it to be. Your exclusively social definition of music is simple-minded, and, to me, sickening. Your analogy is rather brainless, also. I regret the lack of diplomacy here, but such a combination of prescriptive arrogance and utter cluelessness seems to cry out for it.
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blue hell
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Aldebaran wrote:
... and, to me, sickening.


Hope it's not too bad and that you'll recover quickly.

welcome nevetheless.

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paul e.



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Aldebaran wrote:
I am very late to the party, but....


Paul e:
Quote:
that only goes so far..music is not a private language and needs to be shared and communicated to fellow creatures..so, unless one thinks that giving academic lectures to one's self in your own bedroom is more valuable than the orations of martin luther king...



Music is whatever the musician wishes for it to be. Your exclusively social definition of music is simple-minded, and, to me, sickening. Your analogy is rather brainless, also. I regret the lack of diplomacy here, but such a combination of prescriptive arrogance and utter cluelessness seems to cry out for it.


um....um...huh?

prescriptive...as in...wha?

thank you for reminding why i decided to stop 'discussing' such things on forums

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Aldebaran wrote:
I am very late to the party, but....


Paul e:
Quote:
that only goes so far..music is not a private language and needs to be shared and communicated to fellow creatures..so, unless one thinks that giving academic lectures to one's self in your own bedroom is more valuable than the orations of martin luther king...



Music is whatever the musician wishes for it to be. Your exclusively social definition of music is simple-minded, and, to me, sickening. Your analogy is rather brainless, also. I regret the lack of diplomacy here, but such a combination of prescriptive arrogance and utter cluelessness seems to cry out for it.




Late is OK. welcome

Quote:
Music is whatever the musician wishes for it to be.


This is a perfectly valid definition of music, but it does not address the fact that music as such also and perhaps foremost is defined by some sort of consensus on what music is and can be. This again both explains and places various avant garde art movements into a greater context. Without a cultural/social understanding of music many of these movements and their accomplishments simply won´t make much sense.

Paul e simply states that he chooses to see music as phenomenon interconnected with culture / social interaction. I think this rather suggests Paul e is guilty of empathy rather than utter cluelessness and the rest. When I think of it your list is pretty extensive. Shocked

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mosc
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Aldebaran wrote:
... Your exclusively social definition of music is simple-minded, and, to me, sickening. Your analogy is rather brainless, also. I regret the lack of diplomacy here, but such a combination of prescriptive arrogance and utter cluelessness seems to cry out for it.


welcome to our forum, but please acknowledge our core value to respect each other. I'm sure you understand what I'm talking about because you "regret the lack of diplomacy here". I'm sure you can make a point without calling people names.

Thanks...

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zerocrossing



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So... I'm new to this forum and I started reading this thread (they're always interesting to me) an it dawned on me that it's 4 years old!

This makes me ask the question, "How does this question change in 3 years?" We've veered off (as these threads always do) but now, in 07 what do people think? As a fairly late comer to computer based synthesis and effects, but a long time electronic music guy (cut my teeth as an intern for Laurie Anderson back in THE DAY) I find that dedicated hardware, for the most part, is obsolete. I would have answered this question very differently in 03 when it was asked, but now with the amazing software tools at my disposal, I don't look back at all to my old hardware at all. I can work faster with so much more flexibility than I ever could before, and frankly I think people's love for vintage is mostly about nostalgia at this point. I don't miss the days of drifting oscs and noisy pots.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

zerocrossing wrote:
So... I'm new to this forum and I started reading this thread (they're always interesting to me) an it dawned on me that it's 4 years old!

This makes me ask the question, "How does this question change in 3 years?" We've veered off (as these threads always do) but now, in 07 what do people think? As a fairly late comer to computer based synthesis and effects, but a long time electronic music guy (cut my teeth as an intern for Laurie Anderson back in THE DAY) I find that dedicated hardware, for the most part, is obsolete. I would have answered this question very differently in 03 when it was asked, but now with the amazing software tools at my disposal, I don't look back at all to my old hardware at all. I can work faster with so much more flexibility than I ever could before, and frankly I think people's love for vintage is mostly about nostalgia at this point. I don't miss the days of drifting oscs and noisy pots.


I don't know. My hardware synths do not suffer from my computer's suddenly deciding that because I got an email it needs to page out the current soft synth to tell me I have an important message about the size of my penis being too small and I should enlarge it.

Oh yeah I could not run mail on my computer.... then I wouldn't get email. Probably a good thing, one might think.

I like my hardware based studio. It has its quirks too, but not as many as when I tried to run Reason on a laptop.

Ok, I am being a curmudgeon. But really. Horses for courses. If you want to run software, by all means, do. It's not really that much less expensive when you start tallying up all the capital costs and time.

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seraph
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

EdisonRex wrote:

I like my hardware based studio. It has its quirks too, but not as many as when I tried to run Reason on a laptop.

if I were stranded on a desert island with a solar power generator, a PA system and a laptop Shocked my soft synth of choice would be Reason Very Happy not only because it's very solid but also because Propellerhead does not ask me every few months money for an upgrade btw how do I get upgrades on a desert island? I need a Satellite Internet Dish too Rolling Eyes

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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
EdisonRex wrote:

I like my hardware based studio. It has its quirks too, but not as many as when I tried to run Reason on a laptop.

if I were stranded on a desert island with a solar power generator, a PA system and a laptop Shocked my soft synth of choice would be Reason Very Happy not only because it's very solid but also because Propellerhead does not ask me every few months money for an upgrade btw how do I get upgrades on a desert island? I need a Satellite Internet Dish too Rolling Eyes


I am not currently stranded on a desert island. This might make a point?

Wink

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seraph
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

EdisonRex wrote:

I am not currently stranded on a desert island. This might make a point?

definitely Exclamation
Quote:
...another story has to do with a Dutch seaman who was left alone on the island of Saint Helena as punishment. He fell into such despair that he disinterred the body of a buried comrade and set out to sea in the coffin.


arrow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uninhabited_island

the geeky version of this story could be:
He fell into such despair that he disinterred the flight case of a buried master keyboard and set out to sea in it.

Idea

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zerocrossing



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

EdisonRex wrote:
I don't know. My hardware synths do not suffer from my computer's suddenly deciding that because I got an email it needs to page out the current soft synth to tell me I have an important message about the size of my penis being too small and I should enlarge it.


Why on earth are you connecting a computer you use for music to the internet? HA HA! Perhaps "dedicated hardware" isn't a black and white issue. I said I felt that dedicated hardware was becoming obsolete, but your post made me think that my laptop has been totally stripped of any software that allows it to talk to the outside world, play games, process words... My non dedicated hardware has become dedicated in a sense. When I bought this machine, I bought it with one purpose in mind: Make music. I've got other machines that surf the web, run Adobe's CS3, Lightwave, etc, but the laptop is only for music.

That said, I run Digital Performer on my mac, and it isn't subjected to the type of annoyware that XP is. As long as DP is the only app running it works perfectly. XP fans can say all they want, but boy oh boy, having both platforms makes me love my Mac all the more. I just got sick of not being able to get all the fun toys written for XP (Like the Mobius audio looper)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

zerocrossing wrote:


Why on earth are you connecting a computer you use for music to the internet? HA HA!


Ha ha, indeed. Something about software updates. I have 5 computers in my studio/office. It just turns out that I use the Mac (also running DP bythebye) for my email. Not that OSX is as bad tempered as Windows, but I did have to remember to make the system beep go out the Mac port instead of the MOTU port. Having random beeps in your recordings isn't really excusable now is it.

Quote:

Perhaps "dedicated hardware" isn't a black and white issue. I said I felt that dedicated hardware was becoming obsolete, but your post made me think that my laptop has been totally stripped of any software that allows it to talk to the outside world, play games, process words... My non dedicated hardware has become dedicated in a sense.



I think that's my point too. The only way to make a dedicated machine is to run an OS that is designed for that purpose. I'm sure some well disciplined individuals have been able to purify a computer for use exclusively by music software (I think Pro Tools when I think about it), but the second you add that network port and a browser, you've got that camel's nose in the tent.


Quote:

When I bought this machine, I bought it with one purpose in mind: Make music. I've got other machines that surf the web, run Adobe's CS3, Lightwave, etc, but the laptop is only for music.


That was why I bought my Mac. It does the audio and video. Oh yeah, and the web design stuff. Oh and all of the correspondence. Um, and the patch editors... oh yeah, and the wave editors/recorders/Cherrypicker/FTP to the Neuron/et al

My hardware based studio has TONS of software to support it. And then there's the websites to visit to try to keep the software up to date. You know how it goes.

Quote:

That said, I run Digital Performer on my mac, and it isn't subjected to the type of annoyware that XP is. As long as DP is the only app running it works perfectly. XP fans can say all they want, but boy oh boy, having both platforms makes me love my Mac all the more. I just got sick of not being able to get all the fun toys written for XP (Like the Mobius audio looper)


Heh. Very much like my studio, both Mac and Windows (and now Linux). But the Windows machines are more ill tempered for my taste, if it wasn't for the fact that certain software only runs on them I wouldn't have bothered putting a midi controller on it, but there you have it.

But getting back to the original post's intent, I have a couple of pieces of hardware which are basically dedicated computers all to themselves. My Hartmann Neuron actually has a computer motherboard in it and runs Linux, down underneath all those nifty LED bars. There's a great forum which sprung up after Hartmann went OOB, to support it. And my Akai sampler is essentially a dedicated computer too.

Rhetorical question. Why use a general purpose computer in a specialised fashion? Especially when "making music" isn't all about VST plugins anyway. I'm not trying to be flip or anything, I'm interested in how other people approach the problem.

One thought I have is people start out on the software-only route because of a perception that it's cheaper.

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