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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » G2 Patches - Completed » Audio In
DeluxeLooper
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Tim Kleinert



Joined: Mar 12, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:02 pm    Post subject: DeluxeLooper
Subject description: elastic audio looping tool -syncs to MIDI clock and DOES NOT DRIFT!
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Hi again,

Here's another application of volatile sampling and elastic audio. It's an elastic audio capturing/looping tool. It listens to the MIDI clock and lets you capture one bar of 4/4 audio, punching in exactly on the "one" of the next bar and punching out again a bar later. Contrary to all previous capturing patches, it never drifts out of sync. (It uses an intricate time-stamping mechanism to achieve this and and is rock-solid over hours -forever actually.) Even if you manipulate the MIDI clock after capturing, the loop will instantaneously correct its playback pitch accordingly and stay in sync. Cool

Different playback speeds are offered: normal, double, half, a quarter, an eighth, a sixteenth of the speed. Or, you can choose a manually adjustable playback rate (which can be keyboard-tracked in order to play the captured audio tonally). Reverse direction of all these possibilities is also provided. You can also scrub through the audio (assigned to the modwheel), which is most effective when selecting playback speed zero.

Now the fun part. Smile There is a button to engage a time-stretch/pitch-shift engine. With this, all the possibilities mentioned above cease to influence the pitch of the captured loop. Conversely, the possibility is also offered to tune the loop or even play it tonally over the keyboard without affecting the speed.


Controls:
INPUT, CHANNEL -selects stereo pair and channel (L/R) for capturing.
4/4LOOP Capture -captures one bar of audio. Waits until the "one" of the next bar and punches in and out correctly. Important! Due to the design of the patch, capturing always takes 2,7 seconds, regardless of the actual length of the loop (it will be in sync, don't worry Smile) . Also -do not capture below 92BPM as this exceeds the sampling memory of the G2 and makes the patch malfunction.
SPEED -select playback speed: stop, x1/8, x1/4, x1/2, x1, 2x and manual speed
DIR -select playback direction
SCRUB -scrub around in the sample (assigned also to Modwheel)
T-STRET -engages/disengages the time-stretch/pitch shift engine
MANUAL BarSync -syncs the manual playback speed to the "one" of each bar. Fun for rhythmic stuff
MANUAL rate -manual playback rate
MANUAL KBT -keytracking the rate (at 100%, you can play the sample tonally (if the t-stretch engine is off))
T-STRETCH Freq Grain-Clock of the time-stretch engine
T-STRETCH KBT ...can be KB-tracked too.
TS-CLOCK Jitter Grain-Clock jitter
T-PITCH Coarse/Fine Tuning the loop...
T-PITCH KBT ...or playing it over the keyboard (at constant speed).

Fits on a DSP. Smile


Hope you enjoy this. I spent weeks perfecting the techniques that went into it.

best,
tim
(G2 addict)

Addendum: Special thanks to selvmarcus for the initial time-stamping idea.


DeluxeLooper TK.pch2
 Description:
elastic audio looping tool -syncs to MIDI clock and DOES NOT DRIFT!

Download
 Filename:  DeluxeLooper TK.pch2
 Filesize:  5.06 KB
 Downloaded:  1339 Time(s)


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Last edited by Tim Kleinert on Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:48 am; edited 2 times in total
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ian-s



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Fantastic patch. Thanks for posting.
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Fozzie



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Can't check right now, but your description sounds fantastic and looks impressive Shocked
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Afro88



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: DeluxeLooper
Subject description: elastic audio looping tool -syncs to MIDI clock and DOES NOT DRIFT!
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Pardon my french, but fuck! Mind blowing. I'm checking this out now!
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Fozzie



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm still a bit gobsmacked by your patch, and absolutely do not understand your timestamping mechanism and a lot more, but a quick question:

Can this looping technique be combined with the 2x and 4x delay-subsampling mechanisms, in order to make the loop lenght 5.4 or 10.8 secs?

If you could find patience and time to explain this cunning contraption a bit more I really wouldn't mind Rolling Eyes
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Fozzie wrote:
Can this looping technique be combined with the 2x and 4x delay-subsampling mechanisms, in order to make the loop lenght 5.4 or 10.8 secs?


Unfortunately, no. These kind of patches use the delay line taps to dynamically access the delay memory. When multiple signals are multiplexed into this one delay line, there's no way for the patch to know if the sample it just has read out actually belongs to the signal it wants to access. Too bad, I'd love 10.8 seconds of audio too. Sad


Fozzie wrote:
If you could find patience and time to explain this cunning contraption a bit more I really wouldn't mind Rolling Eyes


Well, in a nutshell -the time-stamping uses a loud but very short click (max. headroom of 256 "clavia units") at the start of the recording to sync the readout LFO to the delay line. That click is then circumvented by offsetting the readout reference point by a few (unnoticeable) milliseconds. Yes -it is that simple. Smile

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Fozzie



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Guess that makes perfect sense, I probably should have thought of that myself regarding the dynamic delay memory access.

Still, if one was to strip the patch to the bare bones of 'just' the midified audio looper without any pitch or time modulation, the timestamp mechanism might work with the long delays? I'll see if I can find some time to play with this patch, so far I've only looked at it on an unconnected editor.
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Fozzie wrote:


Still, if one was to strip the patch to the bare bones of 'just' the midified audio looper without any pitch or time modulation, the timestamp mechanism might work with the long delays?


No -because time-stamping is done to generate a stable reference point for a readout pointer -which obviously has to read audio via the delay line taps. There's no way around this when using time-stamping.

I already thought about this long and hard. There's no way to do it with multiplexed signals, at least not on the G2.

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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The only possibility I saw was to cascade multiple delay lines via FX or interslot busses, in order to get a longer sampling time, and then devising a tricky concoction in order to access the "segments" of the entire audio loop. There might be a possibility that this could work, but it would be excessively "kludgey" and -forget about any granular features! But I might try it one time...
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gomidas



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OH MY G"2"OD!!! YOU DID IT Hail the Master

Really this is NON STOP FUN

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THIS GREAT PIECE OF WORK Wink
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mosc
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow! I'm very impressed, Tim. Congrats... Very Happy

This is terrific...

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tombola



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Tim,
Would be be possible using your system to produce a simple reverse delay - something like you find in a PodXT or various Boss pedals?
Tom

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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tombola wrote:
Hi Tim,
Would be be possible using your system to produce a simple reverse delay - something like you find in a PodXT or various Boss pedals?
Tom


Well, sort of. A reverse delay isn't that complex. You just have to read out the delay memory backwards.

I just made one for you right now here at home on the demo software and posted it in the building blocks section.

Here it is:
http://electro-music.com/forum/post-89270.html#89270

Have fun.

best,
tim

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selvmarcus



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Congratulations Tim, you did it!

(No credits for the idea for the sync-bug workaround, hm? http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-6899.html)

Very useful and fun.

Can I do time-stretching and resampling independantly,
i.e. playing with constant pitch but different speed?

Just when I was ready to go with VST-plugin loopers on Windows...
I guess G2 is back for me now. Some more to carry to a gig Smile
But no latency here, great!

By the way, when one is modulating the time of a delay (-tap), I guess here are some samples skipped or duplicated by need?
Or even interpolated?

What happens to the inserted time-stamp then, why is it appearently save from this? Or is it?


selVMarcus

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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

selvmarcus wrote:

(No credits for the idea for the sync-bug workaround, hm? http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-6899.html)


Oh, I'm sorry. I was so excited about finally getting it to work that I forgot about everything else. Wink My bad. Embarassed I updated the initial post with an addendum crediting your idea. Thank you for it!

Quote:
Can I do time-stretching and resampling independantly,
i.e. playing with constant pitch but different speed?


Yes. When the TimeStretch-engine is activated, changing the playback speed will not affect the pitch anymore. But don't expect wonders here -this is not a Roland VSynth. Laughing It sound more like vintage time-stretching, which can actually sound quite cool in its own lo-fi way. But you can mask the effect considerably by applying some clock jitter.

You can also play the pitch over the keyboard without affecting the speed.

Quote:
What happens to the inserted time-stamp then, why is it appearently save from this? Or is it?


The time-stamping pulse resyncs an LFO which is precisely tuned to the readout speed of the delay line -as precisely as possible on the G2. (I spent hours on calibrating this thing!) This then makes it possible to access the delayline like (unfortunately volatile) sampling memory. The time-stamping "click" is only a few milliseconds long, and is at the very beginning of this "sampling memory". I just start reading out of the memory a few milliseconds later. Pretty safe -except when you use a very slow grain clock speed with high positive pitch shifting amounts.

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mother misty



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Fantastic! This patch is very useful!
Glad to have people like you around here who really push the limits of the G2.
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Fozzie



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tonight I finally really tested this patch with my bandmembers. It is really really good!!! Fantastic to record a very heavy distorted guitar sound and then play it with speed 0 with the mod wheel. I love it!!!
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Fozzie wrote:
Tonight I finally really tested this patch with my bandmembers. It is really really good!!! Fantastic to record a very heavy distorted guitar sound and then play it with speed 0 with the mod wheel. I love it!!!


Gee Laughing, I'd love to hear that.

But wouldn't it be easier to modify the patch, so you could capture some audio just by pressing the G2 sustain pedal and then be able to sweep through it with the G2 footcontroller instead of the modwheel? This way you could keep your hands on the guitar and use this as a special performance gesture, or even play over the sweeps.

I'm just "thinking loudly" as they say, but I love ideas like these.

I could patch it for you if you want.

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Fozzie



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

[quote="tim"]
Fozzie wrote:
Gee Laughing, I'd love to hear that.

But wouldn't it be easier to modify the patch, so you could capture some audio just by pressing the G2 sustain pedal and then be able to sweep through it with the G2 footcontroller instead of the modwheel? This way you could keep your hands on the guitar and use this as a special performance gesture, or even play over the sweeps.

I'm just "thinking loudly" as they say, but I love ideas like these.

I could patch it for you if you want.

I'll see if I can post a little mp3 snippet today. We just jammed with the patch, our guitarist on PodXT, some live e-drums (based on Sheridan's patches) an me on the G2 engine with midi-keyboard. The idea was to fool around and I was actually playing along with our guitarist, which worked best if I the loop I recorded from his live input was pitched quite drastically, say an octave down or (a few) up.
So thanks for thinking along, but I'm fine with the patch as-is and it is no problem for me to make small adjustments if necessary.

Oh, one thing though: would it be possible to add pitch-bend sensitivity to the keyboard pitch-controlling? I believe your method to do the keyboard thing is by using the keyboard morph group, right? So, probably adding pitch-bend output data into that mixer should work Ok, right? I didn't try yet; probably needs good scaling, but I'll try later.

Thanks for thinking along Very Happy
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W.T.



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

very cool and efficient! thanks.
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W.T.



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

but why is it not possible to use four of them in a performance? as you said, it uses only one dsp.
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W.T.



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

damm i must be drunk Shocked
it does work Embarassed
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Fozzie



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, I promised. I fused some pieces of the jam together into one mp3. My band is not really into classic rock/metal stuff, but hey, sometimes it is just good fun. Drums are not touch-sensitive (on purpose) but played live on an e-drumkit. Hope my bandmembers won't molest me for posting an mp3 here before I send them the entire jam on mp3 by mail Laughing


deluxelooper_Sst!jam.mp3
 Description:
For Tim and his amazing deluxelooper patch. Promised to send in a little mp3 snippet of my band jamming with the patch. Drummer and guitarist are mono in the middle, deluxelooper stuff is 'stereo' (a few ms modulated delay between L and R)

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 Filename:  deluxelooper_Sst!jam.mp3
 Filesize:  2.32 MB
 Downloaded:  706 Time(s)

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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread



...the last bit is especially lovely. Thanks alot. It reminds me of a performance of Radioheads Jonny Greenwood, where he played his guitar through some granulize-chop-weird-whatever Max/MSP patch. I love this kind of stuff. Actually, you make me want to try it out myself, albeit with keyboards rather than guitar.

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GovernorSilver



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very nice! I like!

Works as advertised with my preamped electric guitar. Cello will probably sound amazing with this patch.
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