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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
midi sync not perfect with ableton live
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tangerin



Joined: Jan 22, 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:52 am    Post subject: midi sync not perfect with ableton live Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi,
i recently got a nord modular g2 that i'm syncing as midi slave to ableton live 5. I record audio out from the g2 to the ins of the motu 828mk2 at 96khz.
Great fun, but i think the midi sync is not very stable:
if i load a patch with a groovebox and i record a basic 4/4 kick,
when i zoom on the audio clip i see that every kick is not perfect in line with the bar, sometimes before or later. Not a great problem, they should be a few milliseconds, but i don't know if it's related to ableton or to my motu or to the g2. Anyone here use live 5 and can do a little test?
The important is to zoom at max the beginning of the kick sound
and you'll see if each one is perfect in line with the bar.
I suspect ableton has not a good midi clock.
Adjusting the midi out offset didn't help.
Thanks for any feedback.
And happy easter Smile
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Fozzie



Joined: Jun 04, 2004
Posts: 875
Location: Near Wageningen, the Netherlands
Audio files: 8
G2 patch files: 49

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have experimented with a laptop from a friend & live 4. Ableton's clock was very unstable. Watch the bpm value (in red if G2 is slaved to Live's midiclock) in the G2-editor and get ready for 3-4 bpm values that constantly jump around (so average BPM plus or minus 1 to 2 bpm's). My money is on the Live clock.
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mosc
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Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17620
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 125
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, from my experience a software generated clock is not too suitable as a master MIDI clock. IN a setup where you have seveal devices that could be a master clock, try them all. Different MIDI devices work differently together. There is always a lot of trial and error involved.
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Jason



Joined: Aug 12, 2004
Posts: 466
Location: Los Angeles, CA. USA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok I have been meaning to start a topic on this, my experience is that the newer updated OS 1.4 has much tighter midi sync than before, though it is far from perfect I can at least rely on it much , more though if not careful or too much jumping around within the timeline in realtime can cause clicks and errors you can hear especially if using the delays synced to clock. (as I am guessing it needs some buffer time or something)
In terms of using ableton which I have not, please check your MIDI devices and confirm they are NOT emulated! This can cause some additional latency. Anyway I think the midi clock response is much better than it used to be and I am so very happy I can finally sync my software host app quite reliably with the sequencers or lfo's and delays etc within the G2 with much less effort and problems than with previous OS updates.
So confirm you have the latest OS & firmware for G2 and check out your midi devices etc you can do it though I hope I am not providing false hope, it took me a long time to get it working and I assure mine is working better than it used to.
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BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 3869
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

I just did a test with live 5.

The midi clock for me is fairly stable (much better that cubase sx), the display on the G2 sits at 120 solidly but I do get variations of 1 to 2 ms on the recorded audio.

Cheers

Andy
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tangerin



Joined: Jan 22, 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok i think the problem is related to ableton live.
when i start midi clock i see the g2 bpm going up and down and then stays fixed to the master tempo. But when recording the audio is still not allineated to the bar. Perhaps it's related to the midi latency.
I've experimented the same problem with an external hardware sequencer.
I'll try another midi interface too. Thanks for now.
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Unfed



Joined: May 11, 2004
Posts: 200
Location: Rochester, NY
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G2 patch files: 11

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i notice the clock is more stable using the G2 as master. Live seems to jump 2 bpm for a second then stays solid at the correct tempo. just started using Live though (version 4).
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Jason



Joined: Aug 12, 2004
Posts: 466
Location: Los Angeles, CA. USA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yes actuallly I would prefer to use the G2 as master, this is something I have struggled with for awhile, but with the patches I make and the way I am working now I am thinking it isnt feasible, but I should give it a try.
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tangerin



Joined: Jan 22, 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok finally i got it working:
i tryed to keep the g2 as master, and clock is very stable.
Hardware rocks Smile
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nbozic



Joined: Feb 01, 2006
Posts: 22
Location: USA
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 3

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tangerin, please check your PM. I plan to buy an audio interface and have a question for you - I would appreciate it if you can answer it for me.

Thanks.
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richardnixon



Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Posts: 35
Location: Campbell, CA
G2 patch files: 4

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Actually I have a similar problem and it has nothing to do with the G2. With all audio interfaces, there is a small amount of latency due to A/D/D/A conversion and also any DSP that might be applied to the audio...many interfaces do not correctly report this latency and the 828mkII seems to be one of those. I have the same problem when just recording audio...it's more obvious when trigger hardware via midi though.

Live needs to the know the exact amount of delay (latency) introduced by the sound card in order to correctly compensate for this during recording and if your interface is not correctly reporting *all* of it's latency, you need to use the 3rd text field under "Overall Latency" in Live's Audio preferences. Add .5 ms at a time until it's lining up perfectly. FYI, on my setup it's approx +1.5ms.

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