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Computer visualization programs
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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:27 am    Post subject: Computer visualization programs Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

On another topic, http://electro-music.com/forum/post-96466.html#96466 , a particular computer visualization program, G-Force by SoundSpectrum, was mentioned. This inspired me to create the Visualizations forum.

Over the past two years I have been noticing that more and more electro-music concerts have had visual art accompaniment, usually by a VJ (video artist). I have found the results to be mixed - sometimes the video greatly enhances the musical experiences, but often it is a distraction that diminishes the music. I think there are several reasons for this which I hope we can get arround to discussing.

Lately, I've been checking out the visualization programs that come free with some of the media players on PCs. This players include WMP, WinAmp, Quintessential Player, etc. These can be quite beautiful, and many of them control the images by analyzing the sounds. This causes the images to be synchronized to the music to various degrees. In general, I have found these visualization programs to generate more satisfying results than live visual artists; perhaps because they are more responsive.

At any rate, I wonder if anyone has any experience with these programs, particularly but not exclusively for use in live performance. Some of them allow scripting and some have interactive controls. I'm thinking it would be nice in some cases for electro-music.composers to post not just their music, but a video. Such musical videos would require some sort of recording of the visualizations.

Anyway, this should be enough to open up a good discussion, I hope.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Okay- chuck out that PC and get a iMac, Macbook or Macbook Pro, install Windows XP (so you're all happy again Smile ) and download this demo;

http://uisoftware.com/MetaSynth/

then when you're done there, go to the main site and check out Artmatic (VJ software which goes one step further Wink )

http://www.uisoftware.com/PAGES/index.html

(Hey Mosc- just imagine, music can be swapped in 'pictures' here on EM- quite litterally. How cool is that?)

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seraph
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

G-Force Platinum seems particularly interesting because of its ability to Visualize Any Audio Source
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
G-Force Platinum seems particularly interesting because of its ability to Visualize Any Audio Source


Indeed.

It's really beautiful what it spits out of iTunes Cool

G-force seems to work on FFT signals. I wish that Soundspectrum would give an oscilloscope feature- that way models could be built in say a Nord micromodular using fairly basic patching and an external sound source could be patched to the Nord's inputs, making the sinewaves (lissajou) bounce in time with the music. Perhaps electro-music.com should do a mass email request??? Very Happy

Whitecap was my favourite one (wireframe), but they don't seem to be developing it anymore (and it doesn't work with MacIntel Crying or Very sad ).

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

But hey- it works in iTunes (whitecap) on XP on BootCamp Cool Cool Cool

yey!!

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Actually now that I've had a chance to see whitecap agian, yes G-force is TONNES better!!!
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://www.klippav.org/

seems interesting, particularly this;
http://www.cus.cam.ac.uk/~nc272/papers/pdfs/avcut.pdf

But the video examples are nice as well if you don't care about the technology.

Fluxus looks like one of the most interesting systems around to me (at least conceptually) but it's kinda hard to compile (for somebody like me)
http://www.pawfal.org/Software/fluxus/
Quote:

Fluxus reads live audio or OSC network messages which can be used as a source of animation data for realtime performances or installations. Keyboard or mouse input can also be read for simple games development, and a physics engine is included for realtime simulations of rigid body dynamics.

The built in scheme code editor runs on top of the renderer (see screenshots), which means you can edit the scripts while they are running. As well as making livecoding possible, it's also gives you a very fast feedback way of experimenting or learning about graphics and animation.

Fluxus lends itself to procedural modelling and animation. There is an expermental procedural modelling tool, and full support for texturing and basic material properties.


What realy impressed me lately on the topic of visuals and sounds is this piece/demo by Dave Griffiths;
click here (large-ish file)

There the visuals aren't realy following the music though; they are a representation of the process that generates the music as well as the interface to manipulate it.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:01 pm    Post subject:
Subject description: Linux Visualization
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A program to turn live video into ASCII (mainly for low-bandwidth video, but I think it's nice for further effecting):
http://ascii.dyne.org/

Programs for live video manipulation:
http://freej.dyne.org/
http://effectv.sourceforge.net/
http://veejay.dyne.org/


Modular Video software for most OSes:
http://www.gephex.org/
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:03 pm    Post subject:
Subject description: Windows Visualization
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Big with VJ's here in Denver, a video sampler ($$):
http://www.resolume.com/

Screensaver:
http://www.electricsheep.org/

And the power behind the screensaver (create your own textures, images, and such):
http://www.apophysis.org/
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:34 pm    Post subject: Bomb Windows visualization organ Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://draves.org/bomb/

Bomb is a visual-musical instrument. It uses alife, and is alife. It runs on your PC and produces animated organic graphics in response to the keyboard, audio music, or on its own. You can download it from this web site, and run it on your PC. Artistic and conceptual explanations can be found
here

http://draves.org/bomb/inside_the_bomb.html

and here

http://draves.org/meg

had it on my pc its free and it is the bomb !!!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

is there a way to increase the resolution of bomb? pics on the web look much better than my machine puts out, which seems to be limited to 320x200. Same as it was 10 years ago. can't find any docs that describe cmnd line options.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jk
post that question here
http://draves.org/HyperNews/get.cgi/bomb.html

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Computer visualization programs Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Over the past two years I have been noticing that more and more electro-music concerts have had visual art accompaniment, usually by a VJ (video artist).

Yes, as you can see I was very busy in 2006 but burned out in 07'.

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I have found the results to be mixed - sometimes the video greatly enhances the musical experiences, but often it is a distraction that diminishes the music. I think there are several reasons for this which I hope we can get arround to discussing.

Yes, I have very strong opinions on this, no time now to discuss...
At any rate, I wonder if anyone has any experience with these programs, particularly but not exclusively for use in live performance.

Many programs here... http://www.audiovisualizers.com/toolshak/vjprgpix/softmain.htm

I use ZUMA by 3DMaxMedia, Derivative Touch Player, ArKaos, MilkDrops, Magix MovieEditPro, MotionLoops and many others...

Some of them allow scripting and some have interactive controls. I'm thinking it would be nice in some cases for electro-music.composers to post not just their music, but a video. Such musical videos would require some sort of recording of the visualizations.
Yes, I am doing that now... or at least moving in that direction.
See http://youtube.com/results?search_query=cyberdudeproductions


Anyway, this should be enough to open up a good discussion, I hope.[/quote]
I have many more ideas than I have time to discuss right now...

I welcome constructive critism, but prefer massive amounts of undeserved praise!Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Guys,

Only just noticed this forum!

Have any of you looked at Neon on the XBox 360 its pretty good, its done by one of my mates Jeff who has been into this stuff since the early 80s, some info is at http://www.llamasoft.co.uk/lightsynths.php

Cheers

Andy
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

well, you could do some pretty basic programming with vvvv and make your own ^^.
.., then while youre at it, connect it all up with osc control and dmx controls.

easy too.
booyah.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Computer visualization programs Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:

Over the past two years I have been noticing that more and more electro-music concerts have had visual art accompaniment, usually by a VJ (video artist). I have found the results to be mixed - sometimes the video greatly enhances the musical experiences, but often it is a distraction that diminishes the music. I think there are several reasons for this which I hope we can get arround to discussing.


Short answer: From my experience, it takes an extraordinary amount of talent and time to sync interesting visuals to music in a way that enhances rather than diminishes a performance. Many artist just say to hell with it and splash anything against the screen. As you have rightly observed, it usually just sucks out loud.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:

As you have rightly observed, it usually just sucks out loud.


Perhaps you can offer an opinion what you think makes a positive, rather than negative performance?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

aye, im curious about that too.
i was the last dour festival, and Dj Shadow was playing (i missed it though -.-), and he had a VJ who made a visual story to each song rather then random visuals that just seemed right at the moment. according to m friends that made the performance so much more worth.

then again, i saw noisecreator, followed by allcore at norbergsfestivalen, and the visuals there were just.. well.. anything played at really high speeds (well, it WAS breakcore/gabber/speedcore, but still).

im currently trying to get some visuals going, and i want to know more about how importants visuals are for the audience aswell, right now im just thinking about throwing some random visuals, semigenerative based on midi loopback tracks and fft data.

is it really important to fit the visuals to what kind of audience you have, as it is with music?
i know that alot of gigs ive been too, the music brought the gig down, but the visuals brought it back up. not sure if its the general feeling of beeing out on a festival/club/whatever in a good mood with great music in your ears, or the fact that the visuals actually make you appreciate the gig more, but it worked for me.

if so, i might actually have to invest in a vj after all heh.
discuss, please Smile

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

my impression, unfortunately, is that, often, visuals are used to divert attention of the public from an otherwise boring musical performance. I was talking about it with Amy X Neuburg at Chateau Sonore. She doesn't use any background visuals for her performances. It looks like she's already "visually appealing" without any add-on.
Cool

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

isnt that often the case though with electronic music? thats its slightly boring to watch?

question is, should you add visuals because of this, or spice up your performance in general?
and also, does it matter?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

gbsr wrote:
should you add visuals because of this, or spice up your performance in general?
and also, does it matter?

if visuals are only a way to hide a boring music set under a curtain the problem is the music. Visuals should enhance an already appealing performance IMO.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:

Perhaps you can offer an opinion what you think makes a positive, rather than negative performance?


Obviously these things are highly subjective, but from my perspective a positive performance would have visuals that are in someway related to the music and moves with the flow of the music.

I have used ArKaos on several occasions, essentially you map your bmps, jpgs, mov and avi files to your keyboard and trigger in realtime.

Easy and effective but this method does not offer tight control over the timing and movement of your visuals.

An alternative method is ZUMA by 3DMaxMedia. This is a stunning 3D realtime visualizer that enables you to "fly thru scenes". The navigation is easy and very powerful. With a little practice your visuals can look as though they were designed to go with the music. And I believe that should be the goal... seamless integration of visuals and music.

I consider myself to be little more than an average musician and visual artist, but I believe the combination of the two is greater than the sum of the parts. www.cyberdudeproductions.com

Hope this helps, I'm interested in continuing this conversation as time allows... I have a few performance stories they be helpful to some aspiring artists' out there.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

CD, thanks, I did performance art back in the 80s with video, and we set up the shows in advance for each segment to relate to the music, and the music to relate to the visuals. We used lasers, projection TV and various "disco" lighting, such as we had (sparse). Nowadays the technology is better. It was newer then, though, so we got oohs and ahhs from the lasers.

Anyway, I agree that you plan a show (set list) with a continuum of music and sights. And random stuff doesn't really work except by happy accident.

There is an interpretive dynamic with which you choose your visuals. Trying to get what you see in your head out on a projection screen can be very daunting.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

EdisonRex wrote:
Trying to get what you see in your head out on a projection screen can be very daunting task.


Daunting? Yes, but very much worth the effort!
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

These are issues that are faced by classical musicians, and others, WRT dance. Dance seems most effective when the music is written as dance music. Great dance music doesn't need dance to be effective, and some music is inappropriate for dance. I think the same relates to contemporary electronic music too. I'm not saying that only dance music is suitable for visual art, but some music isn't.
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