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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
Today's CMOS chip purchases and
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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:18 pm    Post subject:  Today's CMOS chip purchases and
Subject description: a couple of other CMOS notes.
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Today to my local supplier off I went with my RCA CMOS Databook, to see what CMOS were in stock as well as read up on them, that I didn't already know. This is what I came home with (including 1 by accident):

- 4 x CD4007 Complementary Pair + Inverter ICs

-- I've been seeing this guy used in quite a few places over the last couple of weeks, including a Voltage Controlled Oscillator. I have 1 already which is 15+ year old stock. Not being sure whether he'll still work, I grabbed more of these guys, to learn how to use and to use.

- 2 x CD4015 4 bit Shift Register

-- I have only 2 of these at home, with 1 of them in use in my 2nd panel. This guy allows you to input a Data stream of HIGHs and LOWs and with the Clock input, have them cycle across 4 bit outputs in the order that they're pumped into the chip.
As well, you can hook 1 of the outputs back to the Data input, for cycling that which is currently inside of the chip.
--- And THAT actually just triggered an idea for Inputting Data at the SAME TIME as cycling data! Just take how many ever of your 4 x Q Outputs that you wish to cycle back into the unit, through a Gate, along WITH the Data input! Or along with another data source! That way, you can have a different output FROM the Shift Register, depending on what you are inputting at the same time! I'll try this function on my Deathlehem Machine and report back to you on the results!

- 2 x CD4017 10 step Decade Counters

-- This guy allows you to cycle the input Clock, between 1 and 10 individual output steps, depending on which one you MAY have hooked back up to the Reset input. Another circuit posted somewhere else has the outputs hooked up to a CD4051 for ring modulation and melody cycles

- 2 x CD4018 Presettable Divider

-- This guy can be Preset for divisions of the input clock between 1 and 10. It can be hooked up to a 2nd one, for divisions up to 20. I can't wait to play with this guy. Smile

- 2 x CD4069 Hex Inverter

-- I've seen over the last couple of weeks, this guy used ALL OVER the place for most of the normal synthesizer circuits. I have 1 or 2 of them already but picked up a couple of more to play with as well.

- 2 x CD4070 Quad Exclusive OR Gate

-- This package was in the CD4017 box! Sad I already have quite a few. Oh well. Now I have more. Wink

Reading through my RCA CMOS Databook, I read again (forgetting from my previous reads) that the CD4024 divider chip (7 output divisions) operates on the NEGATIVE transition of the input clock! It's also a RIPPLE counter. Not a Synchronous counter Sad

I had been wondering a few times why my original and new Master Dividers from Ken Stone, were out of sync by 1/2 a beat. (The new one, when it was taking input from the Old one.)

The reasoning for this IS due to the transitions happening when the input Clock goes FROM HIGH to LOW. Sad That throws the Sync off, by half a beat. (Ken's New Master Divider takes care of this with 4 increases of 90º in Phase outputs).
It's being a Ripple counter as well though has now caused me to decide to completely scrap my 2 original Old Master Dividers from Ken, due to the Negative Clock transition, as well as the potential for the outputs NOT all changing at the exact time. (Changes on the Synchronous counters DO occur at the exact same time).

The benefit side to it at least: I'll recover 15 LEDs; their holders as well as 20 different banana jacks.

Anyhoo - I hope some of this info. was useful to someone out there. Smile Off to get panel #3 completed for my machine. And then hopefully, a new mp3 posted. Twisted Evil
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synthmonger



Joined: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 578
Location: flada
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Did you get 4007UB and 4069UB? I only use these as the buffered kinds don't hold up as well for some reason.

I'm pretty sure I can make a vco out of two 4007's, three with waveshaping.

I'm trying to find a schematic that uses an NPN and/or PNP as a heater. Ideally, I'd like to make an expo source and heater out of one 4007. I think it's doable.
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andrewF



Joined: Dec 29, 2006
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Location: australia
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

speaking of 4007s
has somebody tried Houshu's 4007 S&H?

i built 4 of these in series for my S&H sequencer but found they attenuated the signal too much, by the time it got to the 4th stage there wasn't much left.

never got around to trying to tweak the resistors on the final stage.
probably should have used a trimpot for R6 but i was all out.
Anyway it should make a 1 cmos chip S&H, nutty enough for a lunetta

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synthmonger



Joined: Nov 16, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I built it. You definately need to tweak the final resistor to get no signal loss. I think I used a 50-100k trim with better results.
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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

synthmonger wrote:
Did you get 4007UB and 4069UB? I only use these as the buffered kinds don't hold up as well for some reason.


Uh ....... ohhhhhhh. Embarassed I never even THOT to check for that on the 4069. Sad I'll check both of them when I go back down to my shop. I know I already HAVE 1 or 2 4069UB. I hope these ones and the 4007's are, as well. Surprised

Quote:

I'm pretty sure I can make a vco out of two 4007's, three with waveshaping.

I'm trying to find a schematic that uses an NPN and/or PNP as a heater. Ideally, I'd like to make an expo source and heater out of one 4007. I think it's doable.


Here's to hoping that I can find the 4007 and / or 4069 VCOs that I know I've seen before. (René Schmitz for the 4069 one. Tho, I wont be using NPCs at all. I'm not concerned about pitch accuracy for this machine. Razz Laughing )
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synthmonger



Joined: Nov 16, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well what I meant by that is basically swapping out the heater tranny with one of the 4007 gates so I can get an expo and heater in one 4007 chip.
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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

synthmonger wrote:
Well what I meant by that is basically swapping out the heater tranny with one of the 4007 gates so I can get an expo and heater in one 4007 chip.


Can, they be used for that? I haven't a clue as to what the 4007 is functionality wise. Sad I'm very curious as to your results. Smile

I checked both of my chips that I bought today and NEITHER of them is the unbuffered type. Sad (Unless - 4007CN, IS.)

What's my loss there, for the 4007 if it's buffered??
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synthmonger



Joined: Nov 16, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Of all the 4069 vcos I've seen they've suggested not using the buffer kind, so I just go with what they've said. I honestly haven't compared the two of them as I only have UB kind on hand.

The 4007 is basically an inverter and two NMOS and two PMOS pairs which are not identical to NPN/PNP but functionally equivalent.
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otherunicorn



Joined: May 11, 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It would be very hard for a 4007 to be buffered, because that would be counter to is purpose.
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synthmonger



Joined: Nov 16, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

otherunicorn wrote:
It would be very hard for a 4007 to be buffered, because that would be counter to is purpose.


True. Doesn't look like they make them or ever have.
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DGTom



Joined: Dec 08, 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Today's CMOS chip purchases and
Subject description: a couple of other CMOS notes.
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Rykhaard wrote:
Anyhoo - I hope some of this info. was useful to someone out there. Smile Off to get panel #3 completed for my machine. And then hopefully, a new mp3 posted. Twisted Evil


Lots of help for people like me, with 0 electronics experiance, just starting out in building / DIY Very Happy Thank you, I have dissected a few of your other posts in the general DIY forum as well in helping me build up a stock of comman parts, very, very helpfull Cool

I can tell a breadboard set-up will be a key piece of equipment for building Lunettas (told you I was n00b!)

Just found some cool stuff by googling "RCA CMOS Databook" as well Laughing

Can't wait to get some of these onto protoboard & singing!
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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:06 am    Post subject: Re: Today's CMOS chip purchases and
Subject description: a couple of other CMOS notes.
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DGTom wrote:


Lots of help for people like me, with 0 electronics experiance, just starting out in building / DIY Very Happy Thank you, I have dissected a few of your other posts in the general DIY forum as well in helping me build up a stock of comman parts, very, very helpfull Cool

I can tell a breadboard set-up will be a key piece of equipment for building Lunettas (told you I was n00b!)

Just found some cool stuff by googling "RCA CMOS Databook" as well Laughing

Can't wait to get some of these onto protoboard & singing!


Whoa. How the heck did I miss THIS message? Laughing

K. Thank you for the explanatory post! That'll help me in explaining things on my board, for others with lesser experience. I'll get something started along those angles today. Smile

A bread board is a wonderful tool to have! They're not that expensive either. With one, you're able to plug a couple of things in together right away; hook up a battery and see what happens. Smile If something explodes the outcome may not be as bad since you're running off of a battery ANYways rather than power from the house. Wink

I would follow Ken Stone's tip as well when testing something out. Hook up a resistor between the battery's Positive supply and the bread board's Positive supply connection. A resistor value between 10 and 22 ohms works very well when you have a short. The resistor itself is more likely to let out the 'magic smoke' before anything after it that is running off of the battery power supply. Smile

The RCA CMOS Databook is a wonderful volume! There is a ton of useful information within it, as old as it is.

Don Lancaster's CMOS Cookbook has a lot of useful things in it as well.
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