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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Klee sequencer
Bits not loading
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Budgrubber



Joined: Dec 27, 2006
Posts: 69
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:57 pm    Post subject: Bits not loading
Subject description: U5 doesnt flip
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Hello,
I am having trouble with the load function on my newly finished Klee. U5 isn't responding to pulses from the load switch or the external load. I can see that the pulses from the switch is making it through the debouncing circuit but pin 1 on U5 stays low. No matter what. Is there anything around this part of the circuit that I should check that could be causing it? I did replace U5 to see if it was a faulty part but that didn't do the trick.
I can load patterns in the random input.
Thanks
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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Is the external load enable or bus 1 load working? Or is everything about load inhibited?
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Budgrubber



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nothing loads except random patterns.
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Budgrubber



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oops. I fried something. I miss-plugged the Klee into a homemade extension cord from my modular's power supply...
now there are lots of problems...
Sad
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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok. Output of U3 pin 10 does pulse then for any of the load functions, right? so that you see Pin 3 on U5 pulse. Obvious question, you have checked around U5 for shorts, opens and anything else that could be mechanical?

The random in, as you probably know, is a different circuit and doesn't come through U5. Look at U2 (pins 8-9), also check D3's direction, and look for any shorts or cold solder joints around U2 and U5. Pin 4 of U5 would be of interest.

edit: Oh dear. Sad

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Budgrubber



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It looks like U6 and U7 are dead. U5 was completely blown to pieces. I'm going to have to order some parts before I continue trouble shooting. There might be some other dead ICs but i just can't tell now.
What a foolish thing to do!
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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Out of curiosity, can you tell me were the 4034s made by SCL? There was a bad batch of those, they had a tendency to blow up.
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
It looks like U6 and U7 are dead. U5 was completely blown to pieces. I'm going to have to order some parts before I continue trouble shooting. There might be some other dead ICs but i just can't tell now.
What a foolish thing to do


OK, seems like bigger problems has arose here. I have plenty of replacement IC's so that will not be a problem. What I want to know is, was the analog board connected to this temporary power connection as well? We may have two boards that are damaged.

If both were connected, I can take stock of what chips I do have for both the analog and digital boards and send those to you at no charge. My goal, and Paul's, is to get you up and running. I know I have the CD4034 shift registers for sure. I have the GOOD "TI" ones to Wink

OK, let me know.

Bill
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Budgrubber



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Out of curiosity, can you tell me were the 4034s made by SCL?


Yes, they are!

Quote:
I can take stock of what chips I do have for both the analog and digital boards and send those to you at no charge.


Wow, that's incredibly generous. Yes, both boards were hooked up.
I was trying to get a better look at things but the extension power cable that I made had the negative rail hooked to ground and ground not connected at all.
I'm making a list of the new symptoms. The most obvious ones are that all bits are active now and the clock LED stays on all the time.
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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Probably best to get replacement parts from Bill done before you go much farther. Open ground, huh, not sure how fatal that'll be overall.

Those SCL 4034s have a history of problems.

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State Machine
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Wow, that's incredibly generous. Yes, both boards were hooked up.
I was trying to get a better look at things but the extension power cable that I made had the negative rail hooked to ground and ground not connected at all.
I'm making a list of the new symptoms. The most obvious ones are that all bits are active now and the clock LED stays on all the time.


Your welcome. Very Happy Yikes, both boards were hooked up! OK, lets get you some chips then. PM your mailing address please. In the meantime, while I am getting chips together, please just give the boards a good inspection. Look for wrong or improperly placed parts (pins of IC's bent under the chip rather then inserting into the socket). Panel misswires to the boards, etc.

Part of your problem is as Paul stated, the shift register chips with the SCL marking are sometimes bad. I had to send out new CD4034 IC's to lots of folks that had problems when they first powered up their units. Sometimes the "SCL" marked CD4034 chips would work fine then fail after a few minutes to Rolling Eyes

Bill
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I was trying to get a better look at things but the extension power cable that I made had the negative rail hooked to ground and ground not connected at all.


OK, you can bet all the series 4000 chips have been cooked since they all got 30V across their Vdd and ground pins. Vdd=+15 GND=-15 = 30V. OK, shit happens. Wink

The op-amps may have survived but no chances should be taken. They shall get replaced also.

Bill
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK, I have a chip set ready for you. I picked the parts this evening. I have all 25 chips including the regulator. I also threw in all the NPN transistors just in case. They are ready to ship, all I need is an address Wink

Bill
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Budgrubber



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm eagerly watching the mailbox. In the meantime I was inspecting the digital board and i may have found my problem. There is a through hole under R20 that I had soldered the lead to instead of where it is supposed to go. It may not solve everything, but I'm sure it wasn't good. Still looking for other shorts or bad joints.
And eagerly watching the mailbox.
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Good job finding that Cool R20 is definitely important and creates the time constant with C10 to develop the feedback pulse to clear "PSA"signal to the shift registers. This will most likely solve the LOAD issue if there are no other issues in that one shot circuit.

Bill
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Budgrubber



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

UP AND RUNNING!!!!!
The parts came in yesterday. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I re-stuffed everything last night and today I have a working Klee! I still have to go through the check list and do all of the calibration, but it's clocking and U5 is flipping and flopping all over, all of the bits are loading ... sorry, i'm just a little choked up.
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
UP AND RUNNING!!!!!


Great news !! Glad your up and running Cool You have a good reason to be joyful, you got a very complex project to work! Now, Its play time.
Cool
Bill
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Danno Gee Ray



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bill, That is class.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Bill, That is class.


This is what makes it all worth the efforts.

Bill
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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I too am very happy to hear this. Good job!
_________________
Garret: It's so retro.
EGM: What does retro mean to you?
Parker: Like, old and outdated.


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Budgrubber



Joined: Dec 27, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh, I'm the happiest of us all. This is a really powerful sequencer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDVIxF2LQVo

Quote:
Now, Its play time


There still seems to be some gate bus issues to iron out but I'm going to play with it for a while before I bring it back to the bench.

Thanks again for your help!
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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

All of my gate bus issues had to do with the front panel wiring. FWIW
_________________
Garret: It's so retro.
EGM: What does retro mean to you?
Parker: Like, old and outdated.


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Budgrubber



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's what I suspect all of my problems are too. I might have a bad switch in there as well.
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Budgrubber



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:00 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very Happy I had time to sort out everything today. I had a done a shoddy solder job on a few of the cables causing the gate bus problems. Everything is working as it should. It's all calibrated. . . I have a fully functional Klee2.
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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Congratulations! party time! YAY! party!

OK, now start posting stuff you are doing with it!!!!

_________________
Garret: It's so retro.
EGM: What does retro mean to you?
Parker: Like, old and outdated.


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