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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
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analog_backlash



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:56 pm    Post subject: Hello World!
Subject description: Another sheep to the slaughter
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Just thought that I'd put my head above the parapet. I'm a new(ish)bie, so just saying "hello" really. Didn't know which forum to pop up in, so I chose this, as my latest creation started out as a Stylophone clone, but has mutated into something much larger & more interesting. It's not a true Lunetta, but does use a lot of Lunetta ideas (and it runs off a single rail 12V supply).

Previously, I had built a "flightcase synth" based mainly on modded Ray Wilson circuits, but with some of my own ideas added. Many years before, I built a kit synth (the Transcendent 2000 from Powertran). The latter is in a state of some disrepair (on my list of things to do at the moment).

I have had an interest in electronics in music ever since I can remember, especiially after a BBC Radiophonics Workshop Lecture which I went to when I was about ten. Such a shame that it got the chop.

I'll send some pictures of how the latest project looks (a bit rough currently), as well as some of the sounds it can make. Hope you like it...

Cheers,

Gary
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

welcome Gary

Remembering my own stylophone thingie now, was fun Cool

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Tomoroh Hidari



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey,
i'm pretty new around here as well so i feel it sounds silly for me to say welcome, but - welcome...
this stylophone clone you mention sounds interesting - one of my starting points that ultimately led me here was/is a nonworking (new - unfortunately) stylophone... as, apart from the amp section, and the stylus/keypads there's not much of use in these modern stylophones anymore, i'm thinking of just using those and the housing and creating my own little synth/thingie there... i could just recreate the classic stylophone circuit(s) - esp. the one with the 555 doesn't look to hard, but i rather want something more versatile (yet still fitting into the nice little black/grey box...!)

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analog_backlash



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As Promised, here are some pics. The first shows the front panel with its various controls, the second shows the rear of the panel and its PCBs and the third is at some stage of breadboarding. This is not the final build! It is simply a piece of hardboard which is temporarily holding everything together. Note that I'm using 3.5mm jack sockets for the patchboard. I use a shorted 3.5mm jack plug to connect various parts of the circuit together (I did the same on my flightcase synth).

I'll give a proper description of what is what and some sound recordings soon. It's taking me a little while to master the forum interface (I am a forum virgin you see).

Cheers,

Gary


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Draal



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sweeeeet Cool


And welcome dude!

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analog_backlash



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello again and thanks for the welcomes that I got from you.

When I was building my flightcase synth, I came across lots of other circuits that I wanted to try out at some stage, some of which fell under the Lunetta category. As I said earlier, this project started out as a simple Stylophone clone idea, but I then started to add circuits to it and it all began to mushroom. I used a 555 design for the master oscillator, so I then thought about adding an APC circuit to it. It all grew from there.
The boards shown on the earlier photographs contain the following circuits:

Voices Board:

A master oscillator (half a 556)
An octave divider giving -1 and -2 octaves (4024 driven by the master oscillator)
An APC (the other half of the 556 driven by the master oscillator)
A ring modulator (a 4011 type driven by the master oscillator, with a modulation oscillator based on another half a 4011)
A user defined waveform generator (UDWG, based on 4017 and DIL switch, driven by the master oscillator)
A white noise generator (reverse biased NPN base-emitter junction type)
A drone oscillator (the other half of a 4011)

This gives 8 voices in all.

Sound Processing Board:

A LP/BP VCF (using both halves of an LM13700)
A VCA (half an LM13700)
A ‘noise gate’ (the other half of the LM13700)
A distortion unit (based on an NE5534)

The noise gate is sometimes required when using the keyboard. The stylophone operation switches the master oscillator on and off (along with the octave divider, APC and UDWG which are fed from it), but the RM modulation oscillator, drone and white noise are constant (if they are mixed in). The noise gate switches all outputs off when the stylus is not touching the PCB keyboard.

LFOs Board:

LFO 1, a fairly standard mixable square/triangle LFO (using an LM324)
LFO 2, based on an old siren circuit giving mixable pulse and ramp outputs, where the rise/high and fall/low times can be separately controlled (LM324 and CA3140)
LFO 3, a version of Ken Stone’s Psycho LFO, but using all six oscillators of a 40106 (plus the LM358)

Envelopes Board:

2 identical ASD envelope shapers (using a 556 and an LM324)

Mixer/Outputs Board:

Mixes the 8 voices (using an LM358) and has a separate line amp (NE5534) and headphone amp (LM386).

Sequencer Boards:

An 8-step sequencer, which can run forwards, backwards or in a ping-pong fashion. Additionally, the forward and ping-pong step length can be changed (not backwards currently, as that seemed too complicated at the time). This is by far the most complex part of the unit (using a 556, a 4029, a 4051, a 4013, a ULN2803, a 4081 and 2 x 4066). It has its own clock, but can also be manually stepped, or an external clock can be used (including any of the LFOs). In addition to CV outputs, it has two trigger pattern generators, using DIL switches, which can be used to operate the two envelope shapers.

The two mp3 files show a little of what it can do. Heterodyne Thing 2 is simply a noise making exercise. Percussive Tune 1 uses the keyboard and sequencer together to produce a 'tune' (the first thing that came into my head really - it's not meant to be a work of art). I used no other effects or overdubbing on these (although I did a fade in and out on Heterodyne Thing 2). See what you think.

Cheers,

Gary


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Tomoroh Hidari



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wow, ok that is definitely a "super" stylophone... I like the idea though to use the stylus+kb as a controller. thinking now that (in my case) that's what I'm gonna built mine into (including maybe a very simple 1-chip osc for standalone use).
listening to the sounds right now! sounding great - you seem to have a very nice sounding filter there - amongst others... (any chance to get a schema for that)

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analog_backlash



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi there,

I have to admit that the VCF was not my design. It was based on the circuit shown in this link:

http://www.magicmess.co.uk/electronics/12dbfilter.php

This in turn was based on an R.A.Penfold design, which is in an old Maplin Electronics book called Music Projects. My changes to this were rather minor and specific to how it responded to my circuits, so it's best just to try the one above first. The only majorish change I did make was to add some amplification to the BP signal, as it seemed pathetically quiet compared with the LP signal. I used a single transistor amplifier, but you could also use an op-amp. Again, you may have your own preferences on this.

Cheers,

Gary
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analog_backlash



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:07 am    Post subject: Sequencer Schematic Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi again,

I've just drawn a fairly readable schematic for my "Super Stylophone" sequencer and I would like to know if anyone has any (constructive) ideas about the design (I'm not an electronics engineer, just a barely competent amateur with a science background). I have been inspired by other circuits that I have seen on the Internet, notably Casper Electronics' Step Sequencer:

http://casperelectronics.com/finished-pieces/sequencers/step-sequencer/

This was a bit of a nightmare to scan in 4 bits and then reassamble, so I hope that it's all understandable. Some features are specialized to my own circuits, so there may be one or two questions about why I did certain things.

Anyway, here it is.

Cheers,

Gary


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As far as I can tell that's a really good, really comprehensive sequencer Smile Every time I thought "it would be good if he had one of those" It was the next bit of circuitry I looked at Laughing

regarding your external clock input and manual trigger input, why do you have a 1meg resistor in parallel with a cap? Just a bit of circuitry I've not seen used for external inputs is all. Usually I use this for external trigger inputs on 555 timers:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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analog_backlash



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi JingleJoe! Razz I have been reading your posts for ages now and I feel honoured by your favourable comments. To be totally honest, I never used to put the 1M0 resistor in myself, but then I read somewhere (I can't remember where at the moment) that it was to prevent retriggering if you held the button in for longer than the monostable period. This may be complete garbage, of course. Ever since then, I've been putting it in. The next time that I build a 555 monostable, I shall try out your circuit.
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't quite see how that would prevent a re-trigger if the clock is longer than the monostable, that doesn't affect it does it? I think it may just keep the monostable on longer than it is designed to be.
The circuit I posted definately prevents re-trigger or sustained hold, it changes any square wave or low pulse used as a clock into a single short low pulse on the falling edge.

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analog_backlash



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

One thing that I did think about adding was a randomizer, which could presumably be done by applying a random (or pseudo-random) binary number to pins 9-11 of the 4051. I would be interested in any ideas about the simplest way to do this. I know that it probably involves using shift registers, which is on my "to do list" of things to learn about (I know what they are, but I haven't experimented with them yet). Alternatively, I could just use 3 oscillators (e.g. from a 40106) running at different rates, connected to pins 9-11.

Any ideas would be welcome.
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the three oscillators idea is what I was thinking of aswell however a bit more complex:
Take lots of oscillators and connect them together with XOR gates, then put that into a frequency divider (AKA binary counter) if it's too fast, you should still get some very interesting patters out of a binary counter for the 4051.
You could use a counter with up/down controls (as I think you did right? for the ping pong control?) and connect a randomized signal there aswell! Then things will get really interesting Very Happy

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analog_backlash



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow! That's given me a lot to think about. Thanks for that. I'll give those options a try and see what happens. If anything interesting comes out, I'll put a sample up. It may require minor surgery to my boards now, but that's not a problem - I quite often do that anyway (never satisfied, you see).
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RingMad



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I admit I've only been skimming this thread, but I noticed an interest expressed in pseudo-random bit generators... so I just thought I'd mention that I posted 2 such circuits I found and drew up. I use them all the time... if you want to check them out, that thread is here: http://electro-music.com/forum/post-354253.html .

BTW, that SuperStylophone looks pretty cool!

James.
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analog_backlash



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi James,

Thanks for that link and your comments on my "Super Stylophone" (working title). It is much appreciated.

I do remember reading your posts at the time, but I didn't realise then that I might need to use them. I shall certainly try out the first one, as I already have the right chips. I haven't got a 40174 at the moment, but next time I make an order, I shall get some.

By the way, have you (or anyone else reading this) had trouble finding 4006s? They used to be widely available, but recently they seem to have dissapeared from suppliers listings. I do know of one UK source:

http://www2.cricklewoodelectronics.com/Cricklewood/home.php

I wonder if they have gone the way of many other useful chips and are no longer being manufactured. Let me know if you have any info on this.

Thanks again,

Gary
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, it has been discontinued and I had trouble finding it. My local electronics shop has some in stock though. I bought up a few for projects of my own, nothing I will sell though or "mass produce".
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RingMad



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I had read that the 4006 had been discontinued, then forgot. I'll put it on my list and ask at the place I bought them a year or 2 ago... perhaps they only had a few left, eeeek.

James.
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analog_backlash



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's really annoying when these chips get discontinued, but I suppose that they become uneconomical to produce. I'm dreading the day when they will only be supplying SMDs - the horror, the horror...
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't think that day will ever come. They still make thermionic valves, which to me says you will still be able to get DIL package 555 timers and op amps and some standard logic ICs in 50 years time. If the apocalypse doesn't come.
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analog_backlash



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:50 am    Post subject: Randomizer Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry I've been away for a while, but I went off on a bit of a side project for a simple mixer that I need for recording purposes.

I have thought about a mod that I'm going to do for the Super Stylophone, so that I can input external addresses to the 4051 on the sequencer and thus try out some of these ideas. That's on my 'next thing to do' list.

After that, I think that I'll build an honest to goodness Lunetta of some kind. There are so many ideas, but not enough hours in the day (or money in my pocket).

By the way JingleJoe, I hope that you're right about the rise of the SMD (and the apocalypse, come to that).

Cheers,

Gary
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analog_backlash



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:48 pm    Post subject: Randomizer Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello Again.

I've finally got round to work on the circuit to randomize my sequencer (despite coming down with a bit of "man-flu" Sad ). I thought that it would also be nice to generate a random CV from it as well, using an R/2R ladder. The schematic is shown below (based heavily on RingMad's 4006/4077 design - thanks again for that).

As you can see from my scope traces, the design seems to be working well (red trace = CV, blue trace = clock). However, I seem to be suffering from RingMad's original problem, i.e. that the thing keeps locking up, despite the addition of the pull-down resistor on pin 3 of the 4077 (as shown). The lock up occurs on power up and I have to switch it off then on again (sometimes several times) before it works. I've tried changing the value of the pull-down resistor, changing which output it's on and putting them on all four outputs, but to no avail. I've also tried changing the 4006 and 4077 chips, but again, nothing cures it. By the way, the problem occurs whether or not the 4077 is attached to the rest of the circuit.

I wonder if anyone can think of a reason/cure for this problem? Also, does it matter which 3 of the 4 4077 outputs I need to connect to pins 9-11 of the 4051 in my sequencer (see ? on the schematic). I guess that as it is randomness that I want, it doesn't really matter.

In case you're wondering about the 27K on the CV output, that's down to my "VCO" being a bit crap, so I have to keep the CV down to a maximum of about 3.5V.

No sound samples yet, as I haven't connected it up to the sequencer, but as soon as I do, I'll post the results.

Cheers,

Gary

P.S. I still haven't worked out how to put the attachments in the right order, so apologies for any confusion...


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Gary,

Are you sure this thing is latching up and not powering on in a steady state condition? If all of the 4006 shift register stages are high, the outputs of the 4077 will be high too, so nothing can change. There may be other steady state conditions as well so for a sanity check, look at the output values when it appears it is not working and make sure the inputs can actually change. I read RingMad's comments about it latching up with a high frequency clock and that's the classic description of a shift register feedback design that has steady state conditions; the circuit isn't latching up, it's just running through all possible states faster until it reaches a steady state. Is the clock input floating at any time? That could cause problems that could be solved with a pull-up or pull-down resistor.

One unrelated observation, the terminating resistor in an R2R ladder is 2R.

Brock
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I was going to suggest similar things to brock, also (Tangent time!) your VCO isn't crappy, it just has unique operating specifications Wink If it still makes the waveforms you want then I'd say it's an acceptable VCO.

Things look good so far anyway ... my mind is just full of ideas for making randomizers now ... try this: get a bunch of oscillators and put them into some XORs and then tap random places along the XOR network with the binary inputs of a 4051, then connect the 8 channels to different places in the XOR chain aswell, the common connection would be the output giving you a random sequence of bits. I've got a feeling that that idea will either be spectatularly random or woefully predictable.

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