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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Noodles at Electro-Music 2005?
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davep



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:10 pm    Post subject: Noodles at Electro-Music 2005? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi all,

There has always been a lot of interest in the topic of 'noodle' patches, and I have been discussing with Howard the possibility of giving a talk / demo / discussion at Electro-music 2005 on the topic of noodles, preferably along with one or two other people.

Lately I've been working on a particular type of noodle / drone / soundscape that automatically generates music that is somewhat traditional and tonal in nature. But these are not really typical of the kinds of noodle patches folks here make, and if we're going to talk about noodles, it would be good to get some participation from others who do a lot more of this kind of patching than I do.

So here are a couple of requests:

1. If you are planning to attend the event and you are interested in participating in this part of the program by giving a brief talk (like fifteen minutes?) about noodles (how you make them, what you think makes a 'good' noodle, maybe some tips & tricks) and showing off a few example of your work, please contact me either through this site or by emailing me at dpeck@euphonix.com and we can start making plans.

2. If you're NOT planning to attend, but you are a noodler, please feel free to start posting some ideas, tips & tricks, noodle philosophy, etc. to this thread. We promise to say lots of nice things about you at the event if we use any of your stuff.

Thanks!

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davep



Joined: Jul 05, 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 5:31 pm    Post subject: Noodles at Electro-Music 2005? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi again all,

So far, I have heard from one member who is interested in helping out with the noodle lecture / demo by providing some information, but who would prefer to not be directly involved in the actual lecture. But so far, that's it.

So I figured I ought to ask once more. We're looking for one or two folks who would be interested in helping to give a brief talk about noodles (see previous post). Waddaya say?

Thanks!

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mosc
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dave, Rob contacted me off line and he's will to help out. Also, Greg, EGW, has some interesting ideas about noodles and he's interested too. I volunteer as well, but my noodle philosophy is very similar to Greg's, but not identical.
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egw



Joined: Feb 01, 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, mine are not really noodles in the traditional sense of self-playing patches. They are more like algorithmic sequencers or pattern generators that are intended to be played and tweaked by a human in real time.
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cebec



Joined: Apr 19, 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i'd love to learn more about constructing algorithmic sequencers and pattern generators that lend themelves to real time tweakability.
as howard's already mentioned in a couple different 'noodle' and 'performance' threads, the goal, in a way, and for me, at least, is in performing with these 'noodles'...
would you be willing to share one or two examples of these?
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egw



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have mixed feelings about sharing these patches right now.
First, because they are not completed (maybe they never will be, because I keep refining them).
Second, because I view them as more like compositions than sounds.
So in a way, they define the personal style of music I am trying to develop.
I haven't had a chance to perform with them yet - If I post them and others use them, I would be losing something (the uniqueness of my musical expression).
Also, one of them is designed to work with the external equipment I have connected.
Anyway I'm happy to discuss the concepts, which are not complicated at all.
And if you come to electro-music 2005, I will demonstrate them as well as use them in performances there.
I wonder how other people feel about sharing their patches, especially noodles that can be thought of as a unique musical composition? I know that some have said they don't mind others using them, but the creator should receive credit.
There are some early examples in the patch archive, under sequencer - interactive.
see here: http://www.electro-music.com/forum/topic-3922.html
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mosc
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I understand how you feel about sharing your patches. I suggest that you might feel more comfortable sharing a small subset that illustrates a certain principle; perhaps as a building block or simplified patch in the experimental section.

I have seen some of Greg's patches when I visit his house. The patches are great, but they really are customized for his particular setup of external equipment. They would not work anywhere else.

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok I guess I should tell a bit now of where I am standing.

I think there is a diffence between between interactive noodles and non interactive ones. But as I never really tried the interactive ones the following is about what I noticed in creating my own self playing stuff.

There seems to be not too much sense in using overly complex and fine tuned patches as examples for principles used in noodles, as such patches are hard to understand at a glance.

On the other hand demonstrating a simple principle will not show very much about how to build a noodle either as a certain complexity seems to be needed before a patch gets a "life of it's own".

So there is a bit of a dilemma in here. Currently I'm trying to solve that dilemma by making some G2 patches that together explore a limited set of rather arbitrary basic ideas in the hope that this will show how these ideas can be combined to make something that is more than the sum of it's parts.

This set of patches I'd like to keep "secret" so Dave can use them for the presentation at EM "exclusively", but I'm trying to set 'm up in such a way that it's publishable thereafter on some web site.

Also I'm planning to make a set of noodles with a very limited form of interaction to be presented at the EM happening in june. Although I'm not sure stiill about how & what exactly it will be some variation on the radio idea.

But there is one thing that I will not do: go stand in front a couple of people and make an oral presentation about whatever.

Anyway, I guess that I am that one person Dave refered to, as I did actualy send him some preliminary stuff about a week ago. It will take me a few weeks I guess before things are completed.

Jan.
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egw



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jan, You don't need to give a presentation, but I hope you will be there to share and discuss your ideas and techniques.

I find it fascinating that everyone has a different approach, different inspiration. Yet there is a common joy in building a machine that makes music.
I find it instructive to try to capture the creative process that goes on in my mind when I make music, and then encode that process into an algorithm or generator. When I listen to it, I see that there is still something missing compared to the human version. Identifying that is a way of exploring your own conciousness, understanding creativity and the human mind.
In my view, the boundary and interplay between randomness and structure is at the heart of the creative process. It stems from primordial human desire to impose order on our seemingly random surroundings.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

egw wrote:
When I listen to it, I see that there is still something missing compared to the human version.


I'm not going to argue that point. But sometimes I find algorithmic music has something that surpasses the human, especially when the human is me. As a limited musician, I notice that I tend to play certain patterns or riffs - some of them all of my life. Even when playing in avant-garde electronic ensemble, I observe the my hands fall naturally on the keyboard in certain learned positions that enable playing blues riffs of scale fragments. When I want to change what I'm playing, sometimes it requires extensive learning and practice.

Conversely, the algorithmic music making machine that I build does exactly what I design it to do, and it plays things I can conceive of, but not play myself manually. If the machine doesn't play something that sounds musical to me, then I can repair it. Thus, the noodle can play something that is missing from the human version. Idea

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