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parts for wsg (continued)
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choklitlove



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 6:26 am    Post subject: parts for wsg (continued) Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

okay, this is a continuation of the thread here:http://www.elixant.com/~stompbox/smfforum/forums.html?topic=40268.0

i recieved the parts, and since i ordered a lot from mouser, i had little idea what i was doing. luckily, most of the parts are what i wanted. here's what i ordered:

-smallbear-
2 Pot Alpha Single-Gang Audio Taper 16mm (100K) @ $1.25 = $2.50
1 9-Volt Battery Snap @ $0.35 = $0.35
2 Switch - Slide Alpha DPDT @ $1.50 = $3.00
1 Capacitor, CDE DME Series, 1 mf. 100 V @ $0.70 = $0.70
1 LED T-1 3/4 5 mm Clear Tint (Red) @ $0.25 = $0.25
4 Pot Alpha Single-Gang Audio Taper 16mm (1Meg) @ $1.25 = $5.00
1 PC Board FR-4 Epoxy Glass 6 in. x 8 in. @ $4.50 = $4.50
1 Press N' Peel Blue @ $2.00 = $2.00
6 Black Fluted Silver Center, Small @ $0.65 = $3.90

-mouser-
512-1N914 1
512-2N3904_D10Z 1
140-HTRL16V100-TB 2
505-MKS21.0/63/10 1
512-LM741CM 1
581-08055C471K 2
512-CD40106BCM 1
140-100Z5-203Z 2
140-100Q9-104Z 1
291-100K-RC 1
291-10K-RC 1
291-10M-RC 1
291-1K-RC 2
291-1M-RC 4
291-4.7K-RC 4
291-2.2K-RC 1

now here are the ones i have questions about:
1. #581-08055C471K (mouser)- i was expecting ceramic disc-type capacitors for C2 and C3. one of the only capacitors i could find in 470pf. they are microscopic and have no leads. are these surface mounts or something? they look like this:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
anyway, what should i have ordered?

2. #512-CD40106BCM and #512-LM741CM (mouser)- for U1 and U2, do i need something else to install these on a pcb? i saw something like what i think i need at radioshack. something that these sit in? is there any certain characteristics for what i need (or, better yet- part #s)?

3. #140-100Q9-104Z (mouser)- C1. basically, this one just looks big. the disc is about the size of a dime. is this wrong?

4. 1 Capacitor, CDE DME Series, 1 mf. 100 V (smallbear)- for C10. i had a hard time finding a "1uF non-polarized capacitor". the one in the picture is a cylinder and radial. i recieved something like a big brown poly-film cap. i know it's what i ordered, but what should i have ordered?

5. i ordered some press n peel blue and a copper board from smallbear. after that, i realized that i have an inkjet printer which all sites say not to use. what should i do for the board now?

i think that's it. sorry for all the noobocity. thanks for any help you can give!
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choklitlove



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

okay, i think i figured out most of the problems.

for #'s 1,3, and 4: i found what i need at smallbear.

for #2: i need sockets. here-http://www.smallbearelec.com/Search.bok?category=Sockets i need an 8 pin and a 14 pin. but, do i need Machine-Pin Mill-Max or Dual-Leaf AMP?

#5: still don't know.
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Clack



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

2. any of the first 6 in the list are fine machine drill is just a more expensive version holes instead of clips ( better fitting? ) i use the leaf style ones and they are fine

5.

you need somthing that will print onto the paper with toner

a lazer printer or a photocopier ( you could inkjet print it then find a photocopier were you have acess to the manual feed and put in the press & peel , although you have to do an a4 page at a time especially as photocopier love to jam , so put as many circuits you might make onto it as possible maybee duplicates of the circuit for backup, do a little test with a bit of plain paper first to see if its all orientated correct . i normally draw a mark on a bit of papaer then feed it through to see if it comes out the side i want )
inkjets have ink that disolves very easily

did you buy the etchant for the copper boards?

Last edited by Clack on Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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choklitlove



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yupyupoh wrote:
2. any of the first 6 in the list are fine machine drill is just a more expensive version holes instead of clips ( better fitting? ) i use the leaf style ones and they are fine

5.

you need somthing that will print onto the paper with toner

a lazer printer or a photocopier ( you could inkjet print it then find a photocopier were you have acess to the manual feed and put the press & peel )
inkjets have ink that disolves very easily

did you buy the etchant for the copper boards?

2. cool, that was easy.
5. i thought about the photocopier thing. i might have a place... but it will require some mission impossible shit.
check on the etchant. it was like $5 for 16 oz. at radioshack.

thanks for your help!
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The caps are surface mount.

Also......

#512-CD40106BCM is an SOIC part - surface mount.
#512-LM741CM is an SOP part - surface mount.

In other words, welcome to the "I Ordered A Part And Received Surface Mount" (IOAPARSM) club. You are in good company, and its numbers are legion.

So, 'normal' sockets are probably not going to cut it for you, you'd need to get adapter sockets in order to make them through-hole. It would probably be less expensive to re-order the DIP parts. When you are ordering IC's, always check to see if it is a DIP (Dual Inline Pin) or SIP (Single Inline Pin). These are through-hole parts and not surface mount. It may something like 'PDIP" or "CDIP" - these just point out ceramic DIP or plastic DIP parts. Either/or of those are fine. 'SOIC' 'SMT' 'SOP' and a plethora of others are not fine, unless you *want* surface mount parts.

I suggest a visit to Jameco. If you're in the States, it's a greeeaaat place to get parts, and often has parts Mouser does not carry and many times they're cheaper anyway.

www.jameco.com

Let's start with the IC's:

CD40106 Jameco P/N 44257 - when you order this, you may get either a CD40106, a 74C14 or perhaps a CD4584. Don't sweat that, all three of these parts are functionally equivalent. I use them interchangeably all the time. Note that you do not want a 74HC14 - that's a different beast. If it's a '74' part and you're aiming at CMOS greater than (generally) 5 or 6 volt operation, there's just a single 'C' in the part number. These are 49 cents apiece at Jameco, and they're 'DIP'.

LM741 Jameco P/N 24539. Nice, old fashioned DIP 741. 29 cents apiece.

470 pF caps - Jameco P/N 332611. These are monolythic ceramic caps. I used polystyrene from Mouser on the breadboard, because they were the first I found. Polystyrene is a very high quality cap, and for this app, is more or less just overkill. These mono caps will work just fine. You have to buy minimum of 10 for a total of $1.21. You'll have some spares, which is never a bad thing. Well, until your wife/girlfriend starts to notice an excessive amount of parts bins appearing in your workroom. Very Happy

If you look, they'll have sockets as well. Might as well stock up. I use the leaf type, but some people swear by the machined type, so I'll leave that as your choice.

click here

will get you all the sockets they have (if that link fits into here). Make sure you get the correct number of pins when you order (14 for CD40106/74C14, 8 for 741).

Cheerio,
Scott

[moderator: made the long link a "click here" to stop the pages from being too wide. --mosc]
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choklitlove



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i took care of everything except those ics, which i didn't even know was a problem. i'm ordering those from jameco right now. thanks so much for your help!
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Horde your poly's for a VCO module. They're hard to find, and expensive if you do, these days. They are quite accurate, and have a very small temperature co-efficient which makes them very stable too.
Next most stable and accurate are MKTs. If the value you want comes as an MKT get it. For most values below 1nF you've only got ceramics and polys. MKTs run out at about 1-2uF
If a ceramic looks unusually big, it's more than likely rated at 450V instead of 63V (I can't remember the values exactly) Because the lead spacing is pretty close it doesn't matter which one you use (unless space is at a premium) they don't really cost any more either.
Monolithic (usually small blue epoxy) are very low impedance for their values (10nF-1uF) which makes them ideal for bypass caps.
Greencaps are dirt cheap. Not accurate, and not stable. Use them for their unpredictability factor or if you have no other choice.
We're not doing runs of 10000 Soundlabs at a time, so get decent caps when you've got the extra cash.
Electrolytics between 3 and 50uF may as well be tantulum if you've got them. They're smaller and more stable than the can equivalents.
And speaking of the cans, try getting the low ESR (equivalent series resistance) electrolytics if you see them. They cost a little more, but they are smaller and deal with the transients produced by digital chips better.
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Styerenes are fairly easy to get hold of here (Mouser). For a Soundlab I would definitely use Styrenes for VCO and Filter elements.

For the WSG, I wouldn't worry a whole lot about it.

Cheerio,
Scott
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choklitlove



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i think everything is in order. the only problem left is the pcb. i don't know when i can get to a photocopier... so i'm looking into drawing the circuit onto it with a marker, then etching. has anyone ever done this? is it just a permanent marker? i've seen the "Circuit Writer" pen, but that's conductive ink so you don't need to etch (not to mention it's like $15). any thoughts?
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No you don't want conductive ink, messy and unreliable. I think you need to get a proper photoresist marker, a normal permanent marker won't work.
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choklitlove



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

okay, update: i got all the parts i need. i used a copy machine and etched the board and everything. turned out great.

new problem (and hopefully last):
how do you guys drill the holes in the pcb? i don't have access to a drill press, and the hand drill just isn't doing it. i went shopping specifically for a small drill bit, and the smallest i found was 1/16". it's still too big and it takes forever to get through the board. i need help. am i doing something wrong?
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You really need a bit which is .7-.9mm (1/32") They are hard to find in hardware stores. Try a hobby shop, or a specialist electronics shop. The next problem is something to put it in, as most drill chucks don't hold anything smaller than 1.5mm. You could try a pin vice (hand operated) or there are special chucks (which go into the bigger chuck) for holding very small bits. Or get a rotary tool (ie; Dremmel) which should do it very easily.
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choklitlove



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

if i found a bit that small and used my dremel with it, would it be able to get through the board? the size of the bit was only half of the problem...
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Should be fine, in fact at the speed a Dremmel runs it should go through really easily. Try not to have much of the bit protruding from the chuck/collett, less chance you'll snap it that way.
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choklitlove



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

awesome. bought a bit, used the dremel, everything worked awesome. i've populated the board, and everything just has to go in the case. i still have to prepare the case, but it will be done tonight with any luck. i'll be back w/ pics as soon as its done.
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choklitlove



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

finally. attached is a picture of the completed synth.

it sounds awesome and it worked on the first try.

thanks for everyone's help!


mysynth.JPG
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mysynth.JPG


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choklitlove



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

okay, now that it's done, i'd like to properly label all of the knobs. being that i don't know that much about this stuff, what would be the proper synth functions of each of these knobs?
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Congrats on the build! It looks pretty nice. The circuit's a lot of fun indeed.

I'm currently working up a PDF of the Loony Mods, and I'm including a section in it on the WSG theory.

The Zany Oscillator more or less works as an LFO that provides frequency modulation to the Weird oscillator. Its frequency range goes from LFO through low audio. The amount of FM it provides is determined by the Zany Amount control.

When the Wacky On/Off switch is in the On position, the Wacky oscillator gates the Weird oscillator at an audio rate, providing a timbre that sometimes sounds an awful lot like hard sync between two VCO's. I suppose it would be analogous to 100% amplitude modulation (the Weird Oscillator amplitude is either full on or full off at the rate of the Wacky oscillator). I have a hard time calling it AM, however, because it doesn't really sound like AM, though I guess hard square/pulse wave AM would render the same result. It's up to you to term it as 'Gating' or 'AM', I suppose. AM is better than 'gating', because one normally associates gating with functions that occur in the lower than audio realm. You know, as in gating an EG or gating a VCA, etc.

The Weird oscillator provides the actual audio out, so it could be considered the carrier.

The Oddness Cut Off control is just that - a cut off control for the filter.

The filter itself is a 12 dB Low Pass filter with a fixed high Q.

So, if you want normal names for the functions:

Zany Control = LFO Frequency
Zaniness Amount = Frequency Modulation Intensity
Wacky Control = AM Frequency
Wacky On/Off = AM On/Off
Weird Control = Carrier Frequency
Oddness Cut Off = Filter Cut Off Frequency

The two outputs could be called 'Carrier' and 'Filter'.

Just suggestions, of course.

Take care,
Scott
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Y'know, I think 'Gated' would be the more accurate term.

When Zany goes high, Weird is allowed to oscillate. When Zany goes low, Weird is inhibited from oscillating.

So, when Zany goes high, Weird *starts* to oscillate - this would be gating the oscillator on. If Weird constantly oscillated and Zany just switched the path of the oscillation on and off, that would be AM.

Cheers,
Scott
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choklitlove



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i only know about half of what all that means. but, thanks for the info. this project with all of the names and everything will give me some insight to all of these synth filters and oscillators and stuff. good learning experience if nothing else. thanks again!
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Wild Zebra



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Congrats cholitlove!! I bet your hooked now!! Glad to see you got it all done. Give yourself a little pat on the back.
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Choklitlove,

This month's Nuts and Volts magazine has a Thomas Henry article on analog synths explaining the theory behind them. Not a bad thing to have in your library!

Take care,
Scott
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choklitlove



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i won't be able to get that issue i don't think, but i did sign up for the sample issue. if i like it, i'll get a subscription and then backorder that one. thanks!
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choklitlove



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i emailed musicfromouterspace, and ray emailed me back. he was very nice and he even posted a couple pics of my wsg. just letting you guys know. i thought that was really cool. thanks ray!
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