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MattofMattRabbit
Joined: Apr 23, 2006 Posts: 6 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:15 pm Post subject:
1/4" or Banana Subject description: choice of plugs for patch cords |
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Hey everybody,
I'm new to the synth scene and I'm eager to jump in. I searched the internet for a while looking for a good synth project and found Ray Wilson's Soundlab which I have noticed is popular around here.
I want something small but I want to get more of a modular feel so I am planning on patching out a Soundlab. I am torn between using 1/4" jacks or banana plugs. I was wondering what other people thought. |
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dnny
Joined: Mar 12, 2005 Posts: 519 Location: Helsinki, Finland
Audio files: 8
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toppobrillo
Joined: Dec 10, 2005 Posts: 766 Location: oakland, ca
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:59 pm Post subject:
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i have never given my opinion on this topic, a debate which has been going on since like 1965 or something [with synthesis equipment anyway]
-by they way, do a google for "1/4" vs. bananas" or variations of this, find alot of discussions about the different interconnects synthesists and manufacturers prefer and why.-
..also, don't forget about 1/8"ers and tip jacks, these guys' little brothers.
anyways, here is my opinion.. 1/4" jacks and plugs are too big. -i have seen some fine lookin construction planning of panelspace completely undermined by these monsters. you get a small patch going on and it's like whaaa??-
bananas are groovy and stackable! look good. people seem to think that they are a 'real pain' to connect to other equipment. it's not that big a deal.
tips are a good size, but, do they make stackable plugs? i wish! i guess just make mults.
1/8"ers are a good size too. no complaint about those really.
for something as simple as a soundlab, i would prolly just build it with hard-wired switched routings, perhaps with a modulations section akin to the Pro-One's.. but thats just me..
i have these little springs that will accept wires and hold them, they originally came from one of those '300 in 1 electronics' kits.. they are cool i have holding onto them for a while. maybe they would be good for a simple thing like the soundlab. hrrm.
josh |
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bugbrand
Joined: Nov 27, 2005 Posts: 846 Location: Bristol, UK
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:12 am Post subject:
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One real plus point with 4mm bananas is that it is so very quick & easy to make new cables - the plugs I've got just have a screw to fix the wire, so no soldering required - if you've gotta make up a bunch of cables (and you can never have too many when you've got a modular system..) then 1/4" or 1/8" would take you many many times longer to make than banana.
The only thing I wish for from banana plugs is Normalisation - where you can have a connection that is defeated when you plug a cable in. That'd be useful in some circumstances.. _________________ http://www.bugbrand.co.uk
http://www.bugbrand.blogspot.com |
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toppobrillo
Joined: Dec 10, 2005 Posts: 766 Location: oakland, ca
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:31 am Post subject:
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it's possible with some circuitry, depending on what you wish to allow/disallow.. |
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zipzap
Joined: Nov 22, 2005 Posts: 559 Location: germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:41 am Post subject:
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there is no shielding with Bananas. I don´t know if that is a problem?
When you put in Audio from the Outside world it might be good to have shielding/ground connection.
Personally i don´t think 1/4s are too big, but i like big cnobs and stuff as well. being able to tsack the babanas is a very big benefit.
What do you think about using both?
Bananas for outputs, 1/4s for inputs? |
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bugbrand
Joined: Nov 27, 2005 Posts: 846 Location: Bristol, UK
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:55 am Post subject:
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Oh yeah - I do have 1/4" for input / output to other equipment --> for inputs I have a bank of 3 preamps ('cos you certainly need to preamp a guitar input for example) and I have a couple of output mixers that have banana and 1/4" output.
As far as I can see the shielding (or lack of) isn't too much of a problem - I'd have thought largely 'cos modulars are usually working with really high signal levels (eg. 10v PtoP rather than 100mv PtoP)- is that sense or am I barking? _________________ http://www.bugbrand.co.uk
http://www.bugbrand.blogspot.com |
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zipzap
Joined: Nov 22, 2005 Posts: 559 Location: germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:06 am Post subject:
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Makes sense!
But do you , besides from the Preamps which is a good idea, use Banans and 1/4s parallel over your system, or manly bananas, or both?
I´ve been using 1/4s so far, but it´s still time to change. Stacking the plugs is so nice! |
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MattofMattRabbit
Joined: Apr 23, 2006 Posts: 6 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:55 am Post subject:
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one of the reasons that i was looking at 1/4" was just because they are so easy to get a hold of. i haven't found anywhere that i can really get a whole bunch of banana plugs for any reasonable price. _________________ MattRabbit
www.mattrabbit.com |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 212
G2 patch files: 60
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:29 am Post subject:
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Get an old Buchla 100 Series system and a vintage Moog Modular - or any old gear that has had a chance to get some wear and tear - and corrosion. You'll find the Buchla's banana connections still work perfectly where the 1/8" Buchla phone and the 1/8" Moog phone connections are very noisy.
I think banana is the way to go for a synth interconnect. The connections are much more reliable - especially when the gear has a few years under it's knobs. You don't need shielding for short distances, so banana is fine.
IMHO, the 1/8" mini plugs are the worst. _________________ --Howard
my music and other stuff Last edited by mosc on Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:10 am; edited 3 times in total |
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bugbrand
Joined: Nov 27, 2005 Posts: 846 Location: Bristol, UK
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:41 am Post subject:
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ZipZap - Yeah I use mainly (hehe - you wrote manly!) bananas throughout my system - 1/4"s only on the in / out - pics at www.bugbrand.co.uk/pages/modular.htm
Matt - I'm surprised you can't find 4mm banana plugs/sockets - any reasonably sized electronics store should be able to sort them - I dunno US suppliers, but in the UK Rapid are super and very cheap.
And Howard's words make me happy that I chose to go the banana way.!. _________________ http://www.bugbrand.co.uk
http://www.bugbrand.blogspot.com |
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zipzap
Joined: Nov 22, 2005 Posts: 559 Location: germany
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:17 pm Post subject:
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Is it possible that those stackable plugs are rather expensive? I just found them for 2,60 Euro. Banana Plugs with a hole at the side are 32 cents. I guess they´d work as well, but it´s not as nice. 1/4" stuff is still the cheapest. Unfortunately i have to consider this |
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bugbrand
Joined: Nov 27, 2005 Posts: 846 Location: Bristol, UK
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dnny
Joined: Mar 12, 2005 Posts: 519 Location: Helsinki, Finland
Audio files: 8
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:33 pm Post subject:
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I'm happy to use bananas, and some times just a bolt in panel and alligator clip does the job - but the connection is no that reliable. and maybe that's more in circuit bending than synths.
does anybody know why bananas are called bananas ?
_________________ Association of experimental electronics
www.koelse.org
flickr: cable porn group |
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toppobrillo
Joined: Dec 10, 2005 Posts: 766 Location: oakland, ca
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:36 pm Post subject:
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is it a joke?
Quote: | does anyone know why bananas are called bananas? |
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zipzap
Joined: Nov 22, 2005 Posts: 559 Location: germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:05 am Post subject:
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Ok, this really gets me thinking now. Most of my modules are not build into anything right now, so it´s still time to change.
What i don´t like about 1/4" is that they have quite some resistance when plugging something in or out. Mekes me want to hold the pannel not to rip the synth apart (i´m using quite thin aluminium, strengthen it with some wooden plates).
Is that better with Bananas? Do they plug mor easily?
What i do like about 1/4"s, as mentioned above, is that you can have normalized jacks. Topp posted it is possible electronically, i wonder how.
Say i´ve got an adsr getting its gate from the bus unless a plug in the panel breakes the connection. how do you do that with bananas? |
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toppobrillo
Joined: Dec 10, 2005 Posts: 766 Location: oakland, ca
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:45 am Post subject:
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hey, yeah they do plug/unplug nice and easily! ok, for your question about the adsr, i have to goto sleep now, [it's 5 am where im at!] but, i will try to figure it out. post that part of your scheme for gating, what voltage, etc.
josh |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 212
G2 patch files: 60
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:11 am Post subject:
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zipzap wrote: |
Say i´ve got an adsr getting its gate from the bus unless a plug in the panel breakes the connection. how do you do that with bananas? |
True, a disadvantage of bananas is there is no normalizing function. If you want to do normalizing, you can use a toggle switch, or a fancy electronic circut that detects is there is something plugged in on a jack and swiches off the normalized signal. To me a switch is probably easier and more reliable. _________________ --Howard
my music and other stuff |
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zipzap
Joined: Nov 22, 2005 Posts: 559 Location: germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:01 am Post subject:
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Thanks! It´s just plain gate, 1 or 0, about 6 to12v i´m not sure or ground, coming fromthe bus going to the envelopes. Each envelope has a jack for external gate that can break the connection.
I was thinking maybe it´s possible to have a diy jack. Small tube that can hold a plug, a swich without snap-in at the end of the tube that "feels" the plug. should be possible. A swich at the panel is of course the easiest way. |
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Pehr
Joined: Aug 14, 2005 Posts: 1307 Location: Björkvik, Sweden
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elektro80
Site Admin
Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:58 am Post subject:
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And then there is the BJI Tribute Page _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr |
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MattofMattRabbit
Joined: Apr 23, 2006 Posts: 6 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject:
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What about rca jacks? They seem like they are pretty secure, the only downside I can see is that they aren't quite as fast plugging in. _________________ MattRabbit
www.mattrabbit.com |
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zipzap
Joined: Nov 22, 2005 Posts: 559 Location: germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:44 pm Post subject:
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Quote: | And then there is the BJI Tribute Page |
perfect
Banana Jack Interface user, President Bush
explains operation of the new Q150 Filter
to Vice President Cheney.
perfect |
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Pehr
Joined: Aug 14, 2005 Posts: 1307 Location: Björkvik, Sweden
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 212
G2 patch files: 60
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:19 pm Post subject:
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RCA jacks are not very reliable, especially if you do a lot of insertions. They are ususally used in places where cords are not intended to be frequently adjusted. The jack itself can wear out when it loses it's springiness. Same with a phone jack. In the banana system, the plug has the springiness - the jack is a metal hole - very little to wear out. So, which banana cables may wear out, but the jacks can last much longer.
For what it is worth, today I visited an independent Mercedes Benz service garage. The interface they use between the car and the computer test equipment uses banana jacks. Next time I'm there, I'll try to snap a photo. This gizzmo they use would make a great DIY synth case. The Mercedes Benz would too, for that matter. _________________ --Howard
my music and other stuff |
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