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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Modular Synthesis
Quality versus Value
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think you've done well Tex. I wish I had $4000 (AU$7000) to spend on a modular! If you find the tweaking up sounds and patching a fantasy on real hardware is what does it for you then I'm sure you'll be happy. And like you said, it leaves the door open for plenty of DIY additions later. Post some pics of the kits when they turn up? It would be way cool to imagine that I've just started building a $7000 modular Cool
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bigtex



Joined: Mar 30, 2006
Posts: 323
Location: Cupertino, California

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
Very Happy


I suggest you should look into a couple of gain adapters. You know the kind used for piping audio out of the modular and into line level outboard like compressors and reverbs, and then back into the modular.


Good idea. Blacet doesn't have one specifically designed for that, but that seems like a good, simple DIY project. Ken Stone has a board for that. In fact that should be first on my list, after I solder up my Ray Wilson boards (d'oh I still need to buy the parts for those, too...).

Here's what I think my Blacet will look like:
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Now what was that thing I said about sleeping.... oh I'm just so excited about getting my synths that I can't sleep!
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bigtex



Joined: Mar 30, 2006
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Location: Cupertino, California

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
I think you've done well Tex. I wish I had $4000 (AU$7000) to spend on a modular! If you find the tweaking up sounds and patching a fantasy on real hardware is what does it for you then I'm sure you'll be happy. And like you said, it leaves the door open for plenty of DIY additions later. Post some pics of the kits when they turn up? It would be way cool to imagine that I've just started building a $7000 modular Cool


Well, my "having" $4000 is somewhat pretend. It's what we do in America, for some reason. That money should actually be paying off debts.... debts that just won't go away for some reason!

But that purchase is going on my credit card which gives me airline miles. I'll be that much closer to my ever-planned but never-taken trip to Australia. Sydney, here I come!

By the way, Krunk, do a google search for "Nambucca Australia" and you're the fourth result! Small town?

Looks like paradise to me:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, lets just say it's not very big. (pop ~11000)
I'm probably the only electronics technician, computer guru, musician, within 50km who mainly communicates with people on the internet rather than surfers and one armed bandits.
BTW that photo was taken from the lookout which is across the street from my house. If you ever get to Oz and need a place near the beach to crash for a night or two give me a buzz.
We moved here about 18mths ago just after Indigo was born. It's not a great place for finding work though. I saw a Roland Compurhythm go on Ebay for $55 the other day!! Just had to let it go!! Crying or Very sad
Anyway, the life here is good. I can't complain really.

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mosc
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Congrats on coming to a decision. It seems logical and well thought out. I don't see how you can go wrong. I'm looking forward to seeing progress reports as this project comes together.

I understand how you feel about the "lots of knobs" thing. You might check out his thread - http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-719.html - and oldie but a goodie...

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bigtex



Joined: Mar 30, 2006
Posts: 323
Location: Cupertino, California

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
Congrats on coming to a decision. It seems logical and well thought out. I don't see how you can go wrong. I'm looking forward to seeing progress reports as this project comes together.

I understand how you feel about the "lots of knobs" thing. You might check out his thread - http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-719.html - and oldie but a goodie...


Perhaps that's why I like bannana plugs and (especially) 1/4" plugs so much more than 1/8" plugs.

...they're more *satisfying* to plug in! Seriously. The rolling, sliding, clicking or a 1/4" plug going into the jack is just so wonderful. It's undeniable.

And, yes, it's incredibly phallic. I guess the 1/8" jacks are in need of some "natural male enhancement" as the oh-so-clever marketing folk might say.
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bigtex



Joined: Mar 30, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Okay. The money is in the bank, now. I'll be placing the order with Blacet tomorrow.

Since I'm getting everything as kits, just assembling all of the modules will be a huge learning process. When it all arrives, I'll start a new thread to document the building. By the time I'm done building it all, I'll be that much more familiar with the system.

I hope to eventually fill up a couple more FracRak cases with other modules. I've got a few Ray Wilson boards waiting to be populated, and I'll probably buy some of Ken Stone's CGS boards, too.

I see this Blacet modular as the first step towards me designing and building my own modules all from scratch. The second step would be building modules using other boards (RJW, CGS, Papareil) that I have to buy the parts for, drill out the panel holes and silkscreen panel artwork, and maybe modify the circuits once they are done. After that, I'll feel ready to dive in to my own designs and start making my own stuff from scratch.

I figure this would be the most logical progression for me to take if I'm to ever actually make some of my own stuff. I've had intentions for years, but I've never actually done it. I hope that by working my way up to it like this, that I'll really get somewhere. I fully intend to have my own line of modules one day... but I'm taking my time in getting there...
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Gregg Hermetech



Joined: Nov 23, 2005
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i've got just over 4 frack racks of blacet gear, and 3 frack racks of metalbox/wiard/bananalogue/synthmodules.com.

i looked at your layout, and i have to say, you will be shooting yourself in the foot by not ordering more mixers or multiples. i know they're boring, but they are SO necessary and important in a larger system.

if i was you i'd substitute one of the vco's and the dual filter for 2 more mults and another mixer, maybe the quad exponential vca/mixer (and you'd save money that way too). just a piece of advice from someone a bit further down the line!
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Darkflame, I took a closer look at that Bigtex config just now. I think you are dead right about this.
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bigtex



Joined: Mar 30, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the tips. I was thinking about that, but as you say, multiples are boring. I think I'm going to stick to the modules I have, and make some multiples for myself. I figure things like multiples and mixers should be fairly easy DIY projects that I can save a little money on. Not having them there will be the annoyance that motivates me to make them Smile

I just picked up two extra FracRak frames on eBay, fully filled with five single-width panels, six double-width panels, and one triple-width panel. I'll turn several of those single-width panels into switchable mults.

Now, I may drop the dual manual filter in favor of the VCA/Quad Mix. Tough choice... but manual parametric EQs aren't hard to come by, I guess.

Hey, what do you think about my layout? I was trying for something along the lines of:

- CV inputs/sources/modifiers
- CV sources
- audio signal sources
- audio signal modifiers

Now, that may or may not make sense as a synth setup. I suppose I'll play with it for a while, decide I have it all wrong, and then move everything around. There's only so much planning that one can do...
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For homebrew mixers and multples have a look at this kit;
http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs33_matrix_mixer.html

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bigtex



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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
For homebrew mixers and multples have a look at this kit;
http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs33_matrix_mixer.html


Yup. That is one of many on my "to-build" list. Seriously more modules than time...
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bigtex



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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

darkflame wrote:
if i was you i'd substitute one of the vco's and the dual filter for 2 more mults and another mixer, maybe the quad exponential vca/mixer (and you'd save money that way too). just a piece of advice from someone a bit further down the line!


Okay, after sleeping on it, I've decided that you were totally right. I've dropped the fixed filter and the StonZ phaser. I want to get the Polivoks Filter clone and try my hand at making Scott Stites Multiphase.

I just couldn't bear to get rid of any of the VCOs. I know that if I do DIY VCOs that I'll never take the time and effort to make them track 1V/oct properly, so I want to buy those. Other things like effects I'll be cool making on my own. Especially effects that don't track, anwywa.

So, taking your advice, I added two mults and the VCA/Quad mix. Here's my new config:

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Thanks for the advice, darkflame. You're totally right about this.
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Gregg Hermetech



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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey no worries dude, just trying to be of help.

i think it was andre stordeur of analog cottage/serge fame who said "ALWAYS make sure you have enough mixers and multiples!" they are modules you will use in every patch and they increase the power of the system a thousandfold.

i'd still rather substitute the vco rather than the stonz myself though, as it's a very nice sounding phaser, and there's not much you can do with three vco's that you can't do with four, but you gotta make your own choices too, ha ha!

regarding module layout, i have a future retro mobius at the top, then blacet audio generators, blacet audio modifiers, blacet cv generators, blacet other bits, then two frack racks of other manufacturers modules, mainly wiard and metalbox. it doesn't stick excatly to this plan, but basically that's it, all housed in a 24u walnut veneer case on wheels! i'm gonna start gigging it this summer...

i think it's great that you're up for DIY'ing a load of stuff - i never could get around to that, and my skills aren't great, so i always bought ready made stuff.

good luck with your system!

best wishes,

gregg
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jkn



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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You're absolutely right to get extra mults/mixers - you'll need them.

Also - in case it hasn't been mentioned (admittedly - I didn't read every single post in the thread...) - but MOTM has begun releasing frac modules. It's been in the works for a long time, but they're now on their way.

http://www.analoguehaven.com/motm/

So you have a few more options for future expansion.

I have a small dotcom system that I love. It was primarily between dotcom, Doepfer, and Blacet for me - with the larger format, 1/4" jacks winning out.
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bigtex



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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for telling me about the FracRak MOTM modules. I actually found out about those the day they came out. I have some saved searches on eBay with some key modular synth words. I was auto notified about it and very confused until I noticed that the seller was Analogue Haven and then did some research. Yeah, that's cool. MOTM modules are a bit pricey, but I might do it in the future.

It was a tough decision, at first, to come up with what modular to get. Synthesizers.com was definitely tempting. Having larger jacks and knobs would have been nice, but I just really like all of the unique features that Blacet puts into his circuits.
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toppobrillo



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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yeah i totally agree about mixers. not the most exciting module alone but what it does for the others is invaluable. i think it's cool when vcas and mixers are intregrated into other modules, like wiard does.

of course having a standalone mixer module thats capable of lots of things like, not just 1-4 or 4-1 but also 2x 2-4s, etc. and also, as we have discussed alittle on the DIY forum, Vc mixing capability.
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bigtex



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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, I'm definitely going to be making Ken Stone's 5x5 matrix mixer. That will be super handy.

I think I'll also build multiples into the otherwise blank and empty rack ears of the Paia/Blacet FracRak. I'm sure I'll end up needing more of those than I even expect.
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toppobrillo



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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yeah thats a good one!
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ndkent



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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well the thing about multiples is you can always use Y cables and or adaptors in a pinch (or a banana based system Wink . On the other hand mixers, especially when it comes to CV signals are something you need enough of. How many probably depends on the number of sources you have all together and the number of inputs your modules generally have. Some modules and brands have more separate inputs - more or less like a mixer on their modules. Some modular systems also plan much more for the use of negative voltages and biases.
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cebec



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i have a story that i hope is pertinent and not perceived as thread-jacking, and that may be encouraging or helpful...

years ago, when i first started synthesizing, i used and felt drawn to modular environments, e.g., VAZ Modular, Generator/Reaktor, original Nord Modular, and now, the Nord G2. however, i always hoped to afford an analog modular, (i'm using 'afford' in the 'American' sense described above) But it seemed like an expensive and extravagant way to go for relatively little utility (but so much fun!) -- and, at that time, i believed that i shouldn't be having TOO much fun... But, the Odyssey i once owned, and the other analog hardware i'd used had left an indelible impression, for reasons to be uncovered.

within the last year, i decided to take a chance and own some form of analog modular, since i strongly desired an analog complement to my digital instruments and since i was preparing to start a new job as a software developer, which, combined with the activity of using a mouse to patch with, i feared would cause me to dread using a computer for any kind of 'fun' and creativity once i came home.

so, i found and purchased an Evenfall Mini Modular, which, being out of production and somewhat rare, I felt would provide a neatly packaged, relatively inexpensive, and supposedly good-sounding analog 'semi-modular' that would be easy to re-sell, if necessary.

i'd decided i liked the blacet/wiard design philosophy the most of the modules i could 'afford'. i added a single rack of those to round out the Evenfall. i was and still am impressed by the quality of Blacet's manufacturing, sound, and the fact that the stuff's available in kit form. after a few months, i wanted something different. i began to see too much overlap between the G2 and Max/MSP, and though the analog modular's tactility and ergonomics, one knob per parameter, 'limited' or relatively 'fixed' architecture was inspiring and fun, i just felt there was yet more overlap between the G2 and this 'traditional' analog modular configuration. the overlap wasn't in terms of any of these systems' sound, but in terms of value for my money/value for time spent working with/learning each system and the time it took to turn on and tune in.

i sold the Mini Modular and the Blacet, took an electronics course, did some more research, started the new job, and came to the conclusion i needed to try another hardware analog modular as soon as possible! -- and it would have to be Serge this time. i found an excellent deal on two panels and it took over a month and a half to complete the transaction. since then, which is more or less, now, i've developed a relationship with these panels like no other instrument i've used, and with the help of a kind and knowledgeable gentleman in the UK, i fixed a couple of electrical issues. this gave me an enormous sense of pride and encouragement and in that process i've learned a lesson about the spirit of openness/sharing and the value, to me, of an organic and simple connection with an instrument, regardless of its make or model.

right now, i'm aiming to grow this system by at least one more panel.. but first, i want to add favorite/interesting Blacet, Modcan, Metalbox, and Wiard modules which offer the same, or more, variety/flexibility than their Serge counterpart (to make the final panel decision the most efficient) but are cheaper or a better value.

and I'm going to learn how to put together some of Ken Stone's mixer modules, too... because, like Andre Stodeur apparently said you can't have too many mixers -- and i'll be damned if i use up valuable real estate on that very distant-future custom 3rd Serge panel with a $225 3 in/1 out mixer!! Shocked Mad

finally, i'm suddenly unclear on how the G2 fits or will fit into this new relationship. i have a feeling, that despite how much i love using it, i will want to continue to reduce or minimize the complexity and platform diversity of my instrument selection i'm going to continue using Max/MSP and the Serge, for now, as if the G2 doesn't exist, and see what happens. moods/muses, etc. change and some of this stuff is not that hard to come by... i've also learned that analog modules are pretty easy to buy/sell nowadays for little or no loss.

sorry for going on so long! hopefully, this reads as a 'right on!, follow-your-dream, you can do it' type story than anything else, and an introduction, sort of, at this interesting and exciting point in my musical experience.

i'm looking forward to hearing more about your experience -- i'm excited for you.
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bigtex wrote:
elektro80 wrote:
Very Happy


I suggest you should look into a couple of gain adapters. You know the kind used for piping audio out of the modular and into line level outboard like compressors and reverbs, and then back into the modular.


Good idea. Blacet doesn't have one specifically designed for that, but that seems like a good, simple DIY project. Ken Stone has a board for that. !

I don't found the Gain Adapter at the Ken stone PCBs. Can anybody help me please
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bigtex



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Massive quoting!

Funky40 wrote:
bigtex wrote:
elektro80 wrote:
Very Happy


I suggest you should look into a couple of gain adapters. You know the kind used for piping audio out of the modular and into line level outboard like compressors and reverbs, and then back into the modular.


Good idea. Blacet doesn't have one specifically designed for that, but that seems like a good, simple DIY project. Ken Stone has a board for that. !

I don't found the Gain Adapter at the Ken stone PCBs. Can anybody help me please


On the main CGS page, under General and Accessories, there are two "Stomp Box Adapter" modules.

Stomp Box Adapter (Use CGS modules as effects pedals)
Stomp Box Adapter (Use effects pedals as modules)

So he makes a large stomp box adapter that is good for turning a module into a standalone stomp box, as well as a small stomp box adapter that makes a convenient set of ins/outs in your modular to use an external line level stomp box within your modular setup. So, to use an external line level effects box (i.e. rack reverb, etc) in your modular, I'd recommend the second box.
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

theres no limit, isn't it ? Wink

my english was not good enough. to find them.
I just knew the ones from cyndustries, and they're way to expensive for me.
The Gainadapter is a good way to expand the possibilitys and the Funfactor.
And with the Ken Stone Module it becomes affordable for me.
Big Thanks.



i just read this Night your report about your Blacet. cool
I'm very interested in Blacet. Seems to be very valueable with very good sound.
I decided to set first to Doepfer because of the eas to get single Modules without extra Bank and postage charges.
But the veryfirst stepp in my System was the Semtex XL (semimodular Synth) from Anyware Instruments.
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bigtex



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's the enlgish language for you, many MANY ways to say the same thing. And all of them confusing to non-native speakers. It's what we do best. Glad to eschew obfuscation for you.

Blacet is definitely a good value for the quality, features, and great sound. Highly recommended. A FracRak or two would make a nice compliment to a EuroRack setup, if you do get some Doepfer stuff.

Also, that synth you are talking about looks very nice!
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
WOW!! Very Happy
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